Job Discussion Forums

[Dray]

I'm interested in university jobs in China. I'm currently working in Korea. I have four years teaching experience and a Trinity College Cert in TESOL.

From what I can see, an MA is not a requirement for an English teaching post in a university. So, is it worth it? How much more money could I get if I had an MA?

Also, do I have to have an MA in TESOL or Applied Linguistics to get a decent uni job - or could having an MA in Chinese or International Relations help me get a higher salary position too?

[Shan-Shan]

Actually, most people who do MA's in Chinese or International Relations do so to improve their chances at finding an $800 a month English teaching job.

Good route to take.

[Itsme]

[IT2006]

IMHO, you'd be better off with an MFA, provided, of course that the subject in which you are interested lends itself to MFA studies.

Why an MFA? Depending upon the area of study, it'll put you in good stead to teach stateside and at a wage competitive with the Ph.Ds. (Most MFA's require about 56 hours while most MA's require around 36 hours).

Why an MA in linguistics? Unless it fascinates you, you won't find it terribly gratifying. Worse, it won't put you ahead of the pack in China, and it won't get you a job on the uni level.

I have linguistics in my background, but it didn't put me ahead of the schlub in my Chinese college four years ago who had no degree at all. He got his degree from Kellogg's U. I got mine somewhere else.

In truth, if all you want is to teach in China, your area of study doesn't matter. What I have seen in the differences between a BA and an MA in MOST [operative word] public universities is RMB500-700. If one does his homework and has proper recommendations and connections, the prevailing wage doesn't even apply.

[hiptoclip]

The difference in most universities is $ 1,000 yuan with an MA. Thats it.

[Lorean]

With your four-years of experience, you are already over-qualified for most jobs.

IMO the only qualification that make sense for a 'career' perspective is a teacher's accreditation.

Given your experience, networking will play the most important role in your job search.

[El Macho]

[Itsme]

I'm not sure where all this MFA stuff is coming from. The OP referred to a MA.

I saw a teacher make 2,000 yuan more per month because she had an MA. That's a significant amount.

It can only help.

[foreignDevil]

[bradley]

But some universities are now leaning towards requring all of their teachers have post-graduate degrees. Here at Shenzhen University more and more of them have Phds as well.

[Shan-Shan]

If one's sole reason for pursuing an MA is to find employment at a Chinese university teaching conversational English, said person's intellect will likely find the work involved in completing an MA far too overwhelming.

[TapRed]

Having an MA or an MS does not matter in China. I did the ITTT-100-hour TESOL, Universitiy of Cambridge CELTA, CELTYL, DELTA, and I have a Master's in Education and a Ph.D. in Linguistics. It does not matter. No one cares. In China it is all about low wages, broken contracts, lying, cheating and stealing. That includes most of their colleges as well. If you get an MA get it for an American position that pays real money where your credentials mean something because in China they don't mean squat. The Chinese would much rather hire backpacking kids without any experience on a tourist visa. That is a fact. In China it is the dancing monkey show and you are the monkey. White foreign faces, and being popular is the name of the game.

As for Korea...I just turned down a contract offer for 4.0 million won per month plus housing at a college as they tried to shove the E2 visa down my throat and I wanted the E 1 visa as a professor. The E2 visa is a great black mark in your passport for other positions later as it screams "Failed loser ESL teacher" by many HR firms who deem that you gave up on career moves or could not find gainful employment. I have heard this many times during meetings in China and in Korea while I was with the American Chamber of Commerce. No one takes anyone seriously with an E2 visa skid mark in their passport. In Korea, the same is true with respect to the MA. But in reality, they'll try and pay you as much as someone with an AAS or a BA degree even if you have the Ph.D.

Don't buy into all of this crap about getting a DELTA, etc. They are worthless other than to improve your teaching, and if you have already been teaching and have valid credentials the DELTA, CELTA, etc...are not worth it. I have mine mostly for resume props and to date, it has not mattered at all in respect to earning potential anywhere except the Mid East where I made some nice cash, but primarily that was due to my Ph.D. and experience.

Right now if you are an American, stay home and work. You can earn nice money working on reservations, inner-cities, local public schools, etc. China and Korea are both not worth working or living in unless you are passing through as a tourist.

Also, even if you read, write and speak fluent Chinese, and I do. No one cares in China. The Chinese are amused to some extent, and that's it. Doors do not open for high paying jobs that you are otherwise capable of working. The foreign embassies will not hire you because they want cheap local labor and foreign companies want cheap labor as well. Speaking Chinese at an English school is worthless as well unless you want to stand around in the smoking lounge and talk trash with the locals.

Been there, done that.

[Worldly]

[KidfromBrooklyn]

TapRed hits the nail on the head in his view of many things. Lie, cheat and steal is a way of life. They do it to themselves is a BIG way!! Why leave out the innocent newbie laowei teacher who "wants to help!!"

One of the big issues here also is the laowei that likes to roll over for his Chinese boss, lick the high heeled boots of his female supervisor and believe that he is doing some good, buy ratting out his fellow teachers if they have a complaint. Making others look bad so they can look good in the eyes of the Chinese. Spreading lies behind your back.

Really makes me sick. The reality is as Tap says no one really cares. Period. Do your job take your bone, and have a cool one. Be happy. Know you place and learn from it for you are supposed to have an education.

I would love to hear Taps views on "Licking Chinese Boots." Go for it !!! For you are preparing prospective teachers in the way of the world. Not the candy coating that the Chinese would have you believe.

[Shan-Shan]