Job Discussion Forums

[jsteventon]

Hi Isi

Sorry you didn't enjoy Brunei - but please do not generalise so much! There are many teachers who really love it here and there are many schools where local colleagues are delightful and a pleasure to work with.
I find there are lots of things to do here - unless you want pubs and clubs, in which case, it is not the place to come.

You didn't like it - fine - but don't make sweeping generalisations about everyone else please!

Hope you are enjoying wherever you are now.

[celtica]

Maybe its because I always avoid the whingers that I get to meet people who see the good they can achieve in/receive from Brunei .....


And maybe you met all the whingers, Isis,...... because.....?

[Isisgato]

You really are a marvel, jsteventon ! You pull me up for making 'sweeping generalisations' -- then go on to make a wonderful generalisation yourself ! If, as you say, there are many teachers who absolutely adore Brunei, then I certainly didn't meet them. The best I heard was "It's not SOOOO bad" "It'll do for a couple of years" "It's better than Korea/Iraq/Afghanistan etc" "It's OK for the ( very young ) kids" --- the latter comment was usually the person trying to salvage SOME of their own self-respect and personal and/or professional pride. OK, these comments were, if you look at them in a certain light, very slightly positive, but I can truly say that in my two years there, I never heard anyone with a good word to say about their school; Yes, I admit the abysmal educational system is beyond the school's control, but when I heard of school principals boasting about how they'd got rid of x number of the hated 'orang putih' that particular year ( that instance, if I remember rightly, was in Lambak Kanan ); when I heard of pupils in some schools intimidating female teachers, and in other schools stealing teachers' property, and NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING done in the way of reprisals or punishment, and not even an apology to the teachers concerned, then I sincerely wondered were we all THAT welcome in Brunei. Maybe there WERE schools whose principals and staff welcomed us with open arms but I never experienced that, nor did I meet anyone who had that delightful experience !!! And Celtica, no, I did NOT associate with 'whingers' --- in a career in TEFL I've met too many of THEM, and I think they should be shot on sight .........As Brendan Behan said, 'You could stick some people in the Ritz Hotel, with a million quid and Gina Lollobrigida to boot ( this quote WAS a long time ago - Behan died in the 1950's or so ), and they'd still find something to grumble about." Yes, Celtica, I know THAT mentality well, only too well. I am at the stage in my life when I can distinguish generalised whining from well-considered opinion, and well-merited criticism. And finally, thank you, jsteventon, I am very much enjoying where I am now !!!

[BOBBYSUE]

As I said before, I don't doubt that YOU had the experience you speak of, Isi. But why do you keep assuming that other people will have the same one? You talked of "impenetrable" social cliques, for example. Surely these were/are not impenetrable to the people who were/are part of them. If they were to you, that might say just as much about you as it does about them (they were not impenetrable to me, for example.) I must say, with your "jolly hockeysticks" sneering, one might be in danger of supposing you to be a self styled class warrior (probably middle class pretending otherwise) with a hatred of everyone and everybody.
As we all know, the root of the anger in these kinds of tedious people is usually hatred of themselves. They keep wandering the Earth looking for an escape from their misery, and cannot understand why the anger and hatred keeps following them around; why the people around them scowl; and why all the other angry people gravitate towards them.
As for your suggestion that I will wake up and see how bad Brunei is, I feel that it is just the opposite. I woke up a long time ago and realised that life is quite often what you make it. Of course, that's not the case where an employer is genuinely bad and people leave in their droves...but that's just not the reality at CfBT....you try looking at the facts if you don't believe me!
And finally, to your revelation that employers charge their clients more for their services than they pay their teachers. This must certainly be the case, but look at the housing, kids' education, travel allowances and other benefits that we get, and then consider that if CfBT is "creaming off" any profit, well, we still get a very good deal. And what does CfBT do with their profits? Check it out on CfBT.com and you'll find they go towards charitable activities...one of the main reasons I joined CfBT and something you would never find at some of the other, less scrupulous employers around.
CfBT and the (new) management have been extremely good to me before and since I arrived, flexible beyond what I would have expected, and very supportive of my circumstances. I will continue to write positive comments about them because I feel very lucky to be here and very nearly didn't come because of what I had read on this forum. I hope other teachers will take the same chance I did.

[Isisgato]

My dear BOBBYSUE, I don't ASSUME some, possibly many people had, let us say, a less than positive experience in their time in Brunei - I came to that conclusion after talking to a significant number of CfBT-ers. I wasn't actually looking for disgruntled people; it often seemed to just come out in conversation. And also, BOBBYSUE, of course cliques aren't impenetrable to those in them - that's the whole point of a clique; a little group of people who shut themselves off from everybody else, for one reason or another, and will admit no newcomer. The identifiable little cliques I could discern in places like the Yacht Club and the RBA - I'd sooner drown myself than associate with that sort of person. I just observed that phenomenon, so MANY of these little groups, among the expat community in Brunei. In answer to your next point, I have worked in different countries in TEFL .........and in other fields, to get exerience of different ways of life, different cultures and to see what I can, if possible, PUT IN, and not only TAKE OUT; I certainly DON'T wander the world 'hating everything and everybody, escaping from my misery,.........I think you're indulging in some amateur psychology here.........And from amateur psychology to amateur philosophy. 'Life is what you make it'......... well, I couldn't agree more, to be honest. However to make things, to produce, you need raw materials, and I found Brunei sadly lacking in those.........this is my 'social allegory, you understand. And finally, BOBBYSUE, I wish I could AFFORD to work for a company which essentially pays a proportion of my wages to charity. Remember the company gets the kudos, not you as a CfBT Teacher.

No, BOBBYSUE, you have all the right in the world, of course, to like the situation in Brunei. And to publish your reasons why. I have the right to my opinions too.

[celtica]

[Isisgato]

Then they must have a private income in their own countries, or have won the Lotto !!!

[Sheikh N Bake]

I taught in Malaysia and knew quite a number of people who had taught in Brunei. Nobody I knew had anything good to say about Brunei, the "Saudi Arabia of SE Asia." Those who are under the illusion they are making great money and are resistant to change have their vested interests and will always defend the pathetic country in which they're earning their schoolmarm salaries.

[ghost]

I was all set to go to Brunei last year to work at CfBt, but then there was a change in the rules regarding education qualifications, and as I had done my B.Ed. and M.A. in Canada and the U.S., it looked like I would not be offered a position, as the Ministry switched to favoring British Education graduates.

The recruiter from Yorkshire, was very helpful, though. Also there is an age limit of 55 at CfBt, which puts some people off. The sports scene in Brunei is good in the clubs. For families - it looked like a good place. Singles might have a harder time.

If you go to the CfBt website, you will see many teacher testimonials, and that might give you a better idea about the place than those posting here, who have their positions.

In Saudi Arabia, it is not so bad - and yes, it is possible to sock away $20,000-$30,000 per year in Saudi. And with the holidays in Saudi, there is always something to look forward to. Life is what you make of it....

Ghost in Saudi

[veiledsentiments]

[ghost]

Actually the CfBt website seems to be quite accurate, and quite a few of the teachers talk about the place as it really is....with the pros and cons. There is quite a lot of variance according to which school you are placed in and also whether teaching Primary or Secondary.

From what I have learned from the teachers - the schools are ok, but motivation may not be a strong point for many students, so expectations should not be too high.

When they changed (The Brunei Ministry of Education) the qualifications needed, many prospective teachers had to make other plans, even those who had been approved.

Overall, the CfBt gig seems to be a good one, as evidenced by all the long term teachers there. Especially good for families. Singles might be bored, but there is the border nearby and the allowance for drink also.

Most people are satisfied.

Ghost in Saudi

[Tom Le Seelleur]

A question to all poster both those who tolerate Brunei and those who despise it. Does having a family with younger kids shape your opinion of the pros and cons of Brunei?

I applied last year but was rejected because of my lack of secondary teaching experience.

I have a large young family - 5 kids. Are those who prefer Brunei more likely to have kids and those who tend to dislike it more likely to not? If this is the case then it is easier to read between the lines.

Rather than keep arguing about the points who know you disagree on, don't look at daves for a week or so and enjoy yourselves - get out and away from your computers. I have.

[word_to_the_wise]

[sharter]

Sorry to disappoint you but Poland is officially 'The Land of Frowns'.

[BOBBYSUE]