Job Discussion Forums

[Vanica]

My daughter was refused ESL services when we entered the NC public school (1st grade) because they said, That's only for parents who don't speak English. Now, midway through the year, I am told that she is being removed from the class and the Spanish elective and placed in the remedial programme because she is behind in reading. They said they strongly feel that Spanish is detrimental to her English reading (!). She only speaks English now, and sounds fluent to everyone (never has anyone commended her on her progress) and can converse in Spanish at a beginning level as well. On the side, I found out that the ESL/Spanish (one person) and art teachers are being let go.

I feel sad that she won't be in the Spanish class anymore (I really like the teacher but basically the class is in English and they introduce one word in Spanish to the children, probably at the insistence of her boss), and I am concerned about the remedial label. I know the teacher is losing her job and needs a reference, so I can't count on her support.

Coincidentally, I've been asked to volunteer my time for at least one day to interpret at new student registration, so they are fully aware of my credentials (Master's in Bilingual Ed, United Nations translator and interpreter, which I wrote on every form from day one.)

Someone told me that remedial students get special funding and their scores are not counted with the other population. I do know that my daughter might read less than some of the other pupils because she was not taught reading in kindergarten in Montreal as French is not phonetic. (Something else I said to the teacher, principal and everyone else who would listen on the first day we showed up.) Isn't that what the ESL is for?

I have had no communication from anyone until now, except to say that everything is fine. So it is a surprise to me, insofar as I have come to expect the worst after the way they strong armed me at the beginning of the year to have her declared non-ESL.

I don't think there is much recourse in this state, because I really don't get the feeling that ''debate'' is encouraged. Maybe it was the apartment manager who hurled a telephone book-sized file at me while calling me a foreigner, in front of several witnesses, and the way everyone just looked up at the sky as if they hadn't seen anything. I had just complimented her on her Christmas decorations. She said, Thank you, under her breath, then hurled the book and invective. To be fair, the school system here also places 'real Americans' in schools 1-1/2 bus ride from their homes, and puts one child in a family on a year-round calendar while the other is in traditional calendar. I really don't feel that threatening a lawsuit (as one would do in New York) or speaking to the R�gie would provoke anything more than a laugh.

[john_n_carolina]

....your reporting of ESL/Spanish teachers being let go is correct. i checked into that myself.

i was supposed to do the MAT in ESl through NCTEACH but i read the writing on the wall with the economy and all. there is a bit of a anti-immigrant undertow going on in some parts of NC right now, but not everywhere.

my wife gets plenty of ESL from a Methodist church 2 nights a week. then 5 mornings a week M-F 9-12 at a local community center. so, you just have to look around.

what grade is your daughter in?

i don't know why they pull these kids out of the class when they're behind a bit in reading. it seems they would benefit from hearing other good readers. i taught Sp. Ed for 2 years and just left that area for disagreements over how it is run.

remember Little House on the Prairie and "Dumb Abel"? He was like 25 years old, and Mrs. Beatle didn't kick him out!

they should kick out the kids that have lack of respect! that's a bigger problem....

[Vanica]

Thanks, John, for your support. I just returned from speaking to both teachers, and they both reiterated that my daughter tested too high for ESL, but does not meet the ''benchmarks'' for either English or Spanish. So they want to put her in the remedial class, have me promise to only speak English and have her repeat first grade. Don't feel bad, they said, the Korean boy is being left back, too. (!)

They gave me two weeks to teach her to read at a first grade American English level!!!! But they have not given me any of the materials.

Anyone have first grade, American English, third and fourth quarter benchmark tests I can surreptitiously prepare her with?????

[john_n_carolina]

....i still think it's foolish that they pull them out. she has made friends and looks up to the teachers like a 2nd parent.

she should only go out for 30-45 mins a day to do extra reading. the rest of the classes: gym, library, art, adding, science, writing, playground, lunch she should stay with the friends she has met and with the same teachers.

she should stay with her friends. it's too traumatic to pull them out.

tell the prinicipal she'll come during the summer and do extra work to catch up on reading.

i mean, what is she reading, the Wall Street Journal? it's only first grade.

[Chancellor]

[Vanica]

I received an automated message from the principal to all parents of students who are in line to be held back??? She seems to be all excited about this.

Thanks again, John. I actually did say I would work with her after school and over the summer, but they seem adamant.

About 504, yes, the cash cow!!! That is where they want to place her now, and then hold her back. I heard they get lots of funding for 504.

But why do they refuse to consider her as ESL? The NC guidelines state over and over that ESL students in their first year in an American school are exempt from testing and should not be considered for remediation for three years. It states it over and over and even IN ALL CAPS.

They do complain a lot about having to spend extra time with her. They also complain a lot about another child who exhibits autistic tendencies, how they have to spend so much extra time with him, it is so hard on them.

I love how they want me to promise not to speak French or Spanish to her anymore. Why, I thought the problem was reading? They said she tested out of ESL right away because her listening comprehension of English is perfect. Gee, trying to have it both ways.

[Tiger Beer]

At first I thought this was an old post, as I've read other things about North Carolina and its education, while better than others areas in the south, seem to not very progressive nationwide for its inclusion (or lack thereof I should say) of non-English speakers.

It is particularly startling because NC is one of the top 7 or 8 states that is receiving the highest number of immigrants, so its a bit alarming they seem to have a stance or reputation as being a bit behind in accepting this fact about itself.

May I ask, why NC in particular? What attracted you to that particular state?

[Vanica]

Hey, Tiger Beer! I blame my choice on a stupid relocation forum that is run by realtors; I don't want to name them because I don't want any traffic to go their way.

The numbers of immigrants must have really changed in the last few months in the Raleigh area. That's how they solved ESL.

Careful about the churches!!!! They also run ''safehouses'' for gay or pregnant teens. It's not what you think!

Why did I move here? I thought it would be a great climate and I thought I wanted to see a ''red'' (or purple) area for myself. Well, for me, the climate didn't work out (the ice of the NE and the high humiditiy of FL, plus high allergens and accumulation of pollutants), and I didn't know my experience and qualifications would be automatically discounted because I'm foreign. The experience here has been amazingly instructive to me, but I am worried about the consequences to my daughter's education.

Tiger Beer, I could write you in more detail in pm

[Vanica]

Here's an article from NC State about ESL and ELLs under NCLB (hah!)

http://www.ncsu.edu/eslglobe/marginalizing_ESL_teacher.html

Reading First: Positioning ELLs as ��struggling readers��

...

In response to these disappointing achievement patterns, Florida school districts, like school systems nationwide, have attempted to redress reading achievement gaps for low performing students, including ELLs, by adopting intensive reading intervention programs that adhere to Reading First criteria. Specifically, they require 90 minute blocks of intensive reading instruction for students who score poorly on the state reading assessment (Warford 2005). Many ELLs fail the reading portion of this standardized test and subsequently find themselves placed in such reading intervention classes rather than in English language development (ESL) classes. As one ESL teacher lamented, ��they�ve been trying to take our ESOL5 kids and putting them into the FCAT remedial classes.��

Because reading skills and content area achievement are measured through students� ability to perform on standardized assessments normed on a trajectory of native English language reading skills development, it is not surprising that ELLs tend to score poorly on such measures. Yet the requirement for low performing readers to receive ��remediation�� in reading has meant that many ELLs are assigned to and remain in intensive reading classes with native English speakers who have very different instructional needs. Florida teachers reported that such remedial classes, even at secondary levels, reflect the Reading First emphasis on decoding and low level processing skills and use scripted routines and undifferentiated instructional materials. An elementary ESL teacher noted specific practices required by the reading program used in her school that she felt were inappropriate for ELLs, ��They have them to sound out the words. That is so un-ESOL! � And then they let them read words, nonsense words that have no meaning whatsoever.��

[Vanica]

My last word was that my daughter has been given the gift of bilingualism; please don't try to take that away.

Their response was very, very angry.

The school principal is a basketball coach whose written and spoken English are atrocious. The Spanish/ESL teacher is not fluent in Spanish and has no degree in ESL. The homeroom teacher likes to talk about going to church and the baby Jesus. Art, Spanish, music and who knows what else are being eliminated for the next school year. Most parents think the school is marvelous, although some seem angrily resigned.

Should I volunteer tomorrow to interpret languages for the school's registration? I have the flu, I guess I shouldn't infect anyone. I might begin homeschooling next week, as I fear some children may begin to model the teachers and start to ostracise my daughter. Legal age is 7, so I am not required to send her.

[spiral78]

Vanica, welcome to my old world. Thankfully, I escaped. I'm sure you will too, as soon as you reasonably can.

I'm not normally an advocat of homeschooling, but I think you'd be entirely justified under the circumstances.

Don't try to reason with them. They really don't understand. You and your daughter are outside their boundaries. Just go, and don't feel for a moment that it's your lack.

[rusmeister]

[john_n_carolina]

...good points also Rus. but, the bottom line is that she is in 1st grade and what harm would it do to just keep her there? What are they doing, Powerpoint presentations on next-century synthetic fiber clothes and walls?

even at the H.S. level, i say keep them there. i pushed to keep my Sp.Ed students in the regular classroom so they feel "normal" and actually hear good reading. my last student was a Senior and I calculated him at around 5th grade reading and maybe 6th or 7th writing. but, i still pushed and kept him in.

i say kick out the disruptive students to the trailers and keep in the respectful ones; even if they read 2 grades behind.

just like Mrs. Beatle did. she kept Dumb Abel in and it changed the hearts and lives of those students beyond words; including the father.

[Vanica]

Please enjoy the film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z30fXm2gX5g

[Vanica]

Thank you, spiral, for your support. It came at a meaningful time, as I am loath to communicate any more with the school. They become defensive no matter how diplomatically I speak, and might begin to do harm to my child if they become angered by me. So I am distancing myself while she continues to attend and I quietly make sure that I can legally withdraw her and plan what we will do together when that happens.

Thank you, John, your comments are so funny!!!! They have reading levels from 1-2 until 15-16, I think, for the kindergarten and 1st grade. My daughter might be at 5-6, because that is handwritten on the back of a booklet they sent home. The testing methods are heavily guarded and secret (!), and apparently kept in the cabinet where blood is changed to wine, or is it the other way around. (Sorry, I only know about the kooky stuff Europeans do.)

The reading material this week is: My Kite, My kite flies over the house. My kite flies over the trees. My kite flies over the mountains. My kite flies over the sea. My kite flies home to me. With pictures.

I'm satisfied that she can read that six months after her first words in English and her first attempts to recognise letters. I wonder if the 15-16 level is truly more advanced.

Thanks, Chancellor. My Matesol is UB. Rus, do you where to find Soyuzmultfilm animations? I remember Federov and Norstein from my childhood.