Job Discussion Forums

[n3ptne]

I'm going to be coming to Thailand in a little over a month to take some sort of ESL certification course.

Following the completion of that course I may travel to the Middle East to find work, however I may also choose to stay in Thailand and work for a year.

What documents do I need to take with me for the visa process?

I have an original copy of my diploma (BA in English), sealed transcripts, birth certificate, and of course a passport. Will I be needing a background check of some sort? Medical records/HIV/Drug test?

I've been planning on arriving in Thailand with a tourist visa to take the ESL course, and then imagine if I wanted to stay for an additional year that a visa run would be necessary. Is it possible to accomplish this with a one way ticket?

I've been told that getting a Trinity CELTA certification is the best of it's kind. Do any of you have thoughts on that? I've found a couple that are about a month long and in the neighborhood of 3600USD, housing included. They also "guarantee" to find me a job after finishing it... any thoughts on that?

Thanks guys.

[Carll101]

[Pauleddy]

Many newbies need to be careful about Thailand.

You need to make sure if poss that yr course is a CELTA or TESOL pukka course. Some people here set up a month's TEFL course which may be OK for work here but is MMouse if you then want to work 'seriously' in another country. These people even say that their course is 'certified' by the Thai ministry of Ed. All a joke really.

make sure you check the sites about visas. It keeps changing. the tourist visa at the airport used to be 30 days only. I heard it is now 15. You need to check whether you can go out to get another or whether it's easier in yr country. When i got my initial visa, there was no policecheck and no doctor thing. My university now takes care of my visa stuff every yr so I am no expert--there are sure to be visa experts on here. There are many experts on all aspects of Thailand, and I can only give my opinions as an experienced teacher who has 4 years in Thailand.

I have posted b4 about the 'free jobs' after the 'course'. These are in poor crappy gvmt schools which 'normal' people will not work in. Sometimes there is no aircon (and no books). In some schools, the kids run riot.

Thailand has cons and pros. 30,000baht, the normal wage for newbies, is barely enough if you want a nice flat, beers, girls and all of it--especially in the large cities. Yes, I know that you can live on rice and noodles in a small room cheaply etc etc but who wants that?

Check out everything first. Check out the courses and the jobs. Come here with a bit of money. look around. Unless you are a qualified teacher with a BEd and a posting in a high-end Intl rich-kid school, never take a job off the internet. Some gap-year folk even pay 500 dollars for a placement in a no-pay charity job. There are many scams.

Thailand is hot, gritty, badly organised, getting worse/poorer, and many people want your sweat or else your money. As I always say on here, don't watch too many Leonardo di Caprio films about girls, dope and beaches. In thailand you will always pay a price in some way. I promise.

In saying all of this, I still think that Thailand is unique, and for many a good taster of teaching/travelling. The problem is that many people get bogged down here and forget that there are places with better money, better students and a better society--but maybe other problems too. There are people who adore this place and those who hate it.

P

[MaiPenRai]

I dont really get why people say these are scams. As long as they provide what they say they will provide, how is it a scam?

Some people pay to volunteer because they dont want to deal with setting it all up. It can take time, energy, knowledge and money to set things like this up and some people dont have time, energy or knowledge but do have money. I had a good friend who ran a volunteer program that people paid for. It was well run and he did everything he said he would. I met many of the people that volunteered and they were all happy (minus 1 homesick crybaby). Some even stayed here to work after at the same "poor crappy government" schools. He is now doing many other volunteer projects in Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, etc. he makes enough to cover his expenses and live a decent modest lifestyle. he had to work hard at the beginning to get everything set up right for volunteers.

Someone offers a service. someone pays for the service. If the service is what is advertised, its not a scam. Poor investment by some people's standards...maybe, but not a scam.

A scam is when you pay $$$ to get a job or take a course and then suddenly nobody answers your emails anymore and the website is no longer working. Or they tell you you will get paid xxx and you get paid less than that. Scam.

There are lots of safe jobs advertised on the internet. Are they the best jobs? Probably not. But not everybody is qualified to get the best jobs. is it better to be here to find a job? Yes, probably, but again not everybody has the time, energy, knowledge, tenacity, money etc to knock on doors and do interviews and demos, etc.


PaulEddy - What makes a better society?
MOD EDIT Some people come for an experience and actually want to work in the so-called "poor crappy government schools that no 'normal' people would work at". They dont want to come to Thailand to live in bangkok.

Agreed in some of your advice, but please dont lump all Thailand TEFLers with the beer and girls brush. We get enough of that from people who don't know anything about Thailand.

Good luck N3p. BTW 3600USD is way to much for a TEFL/CELTA course even with accommodations. a little more than half of that should cover a good course and accomm for 1 month.

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

We don't permit name calling here and we also don't permit insults directed at other members. I've just deleted a posting along these lines and edited another. Repeats will result in sanctions. Sanctions can include banning.

Please stay on topic and the topic is not an individual poster.

[narmtal]

That is WAAYYY too much money for a TESOL course! I'm sure you can do a LOT better than that! Have a look around...

[Pauleddy]

My reply was 5 weeks ago or more! I thought this thread had gone cold. The following post is factual and impersonal.

We differ on semantic definition of scam. The people who run TEFL courses like this will charge for the course and then charge the school for placing the teacher. As the poster said, 3500d is WAYY too much(about 1000-1200usd is more normal) so it may be that the "entrepreneurs" involved will take enhanced profits or even use some of the money to subsidise the new teacher's salary in the "poor" schools which cannot pay the recruitment fee. There is another arrangement whereby the school gets a teacher as a quid pro quo for providing teaching practice kids--TEFL course students need a lot of teaching practice with real kids, or the course is not "real".

There are a number of variations on the mutual back-scratching nature of the arrangement, but the gullible end up paying in the end. The gap-year kid sees an ad for "TEFL course and guaranteed great job in glamorous Thailand" and falls for it. The jobs themselves tend to be in poorer schools in towns and villages--no beach bars within 200miles. The "good jobs" in Thailand are taken by experienced teachers who live here and know the score, or by superteachers who have MAs and PhDs.

The guys who arrange for volunteers to pay 500usd for the honour of teaching in an orphanage(etc.)are also entrepreneurs. They have a bit of work to do at first--finding places that want to take volunteers--but there are plenty of places that will do, because it's great to have energetic white kids who will "teach" English and also dig your well and paint your wall. Some "entrepreneurs" will book your flight (they have favorite travel agents) and even meet you, but you will end up paying.These guys just do the "arranging". Once they find a place to take USA kids every three months, the thing becomes a sausage factory. The Thais are glad to take the kids, and the "co-ordinator" takes 2000-3000usd every few months. Smooth.

My most important advice is to check whether the TEFL course is CELTA or TESOL accredited. This means that it conforms to UK standards and that it is checked by inspectors. It also means that the course is seen as LEGIT in Tokyo, Taiwan or Toronto. Some of the courses here in Thailand are "home-grown" TEFL courses (varying quality, some are good) which are not CELTA or TESOL accredited. Some of the providers will tell you that the course is "Licensed by the Thai Education Dept", but this is not difficult to rubber-stamp on your course. All you need is that one of the "directors" of your school is Thai (which you need to start any language school or large business)and then that person will, er-- network with the local language school inspector. Sometimes, a meal is bought or a bottle of good whisky hastens things. TIT--This is Thailand, as we say.These home-grown courses may be fine for some jobs (TIT) but once you leave here, they may be seen as dubious.

P Eddy

[MaiPenRai]

Again I agree with most of the above advice and apologize to the board if my previous comments were misconstrued as personal attacks. I was merely trying to point out that people come to Thailand to work or volunteer for a variety of reasons, so sometimes working in poorer government schols is exactly what people want to experience. We don't all come to Thailand for the often stereotyped reasons of cheap girls and booze or even beach bars.

To stay on topic, if you are planning on working in other countries besides Thailand, especially the Middle East, you should definitely get a CELTA. It is the key to most Middle East work. Most places in Japan and Korea dont even care about TEFL certificates, although it can get you a slightly higher salary. ECC and International House are the 2 main schools offering CELTA courses in Thailand. Yes there are others but these are the most well known. IH doesn't offer guaranteed jobs to grads that I know of. ECC does and yes you will more than likely be at their language school for 300 baht/hour or at a government school making 30-33K/month.

A guaranteed job can be great for certain people. Perhaps you dont have time or desire to look for work. Perhaps you are a person who cant deal with the stress of coming to a foreign country without a job lined up. Perhaps you are coming to Thailand at a time when jobs are harder to find. Yes, there are almost always jobs, but there are some very slow months. The best time to look for work in a language school is Feb/March/April/Sept/Oct and for public school work March/April/May/October/Nov.

Taking 2000-3000 dollars every few months for organizing volunteer work doesn't seem like a lot of money to me. It sounds like a pretty standard paying job. I am sorry to harp on this issue, but as mentioned, I had a good friend with a huge heart who did exactly this. And even those people with big hearts have to eat and need somewhere to live, so they need to make money. I know the procedure of organizing this type of work and it is definitely not an easy job and at even a moderate level, it is nearly a full time endevour. This same friend, who was supposedly scamming people, raised more than 10,000 pounds for Tsunami relief and organized volunteers to help build new schools and makeshift homes. They also used most of the money made from these volunteers to provide scholorships for over 10 students that lost family in the Tsunami.

So yes there are good people out there in the world of ESL and International volunteer work. Sorry if that is off-topic, but I feel it is important.

Again, good luck to the OP. Whatever happens to you in Thailand, you have 2 ways of looking at things. A new, inetresting and unique experience or you can moan and gripe about what isn't. I know what I would choose.

[Pauleddy]

Good to have a balanced perspective, so long as it is objective. Methinks protesteth too much.

There are other sites and other boards where persons unknown have a personal interest in reinforcing vested interests. Such people are sometimes known as mythical nordic folk characters.

For my part, I know people who have been gullible and regretted "volunteering", or else have been duped into believing that their TEFL is the same as a CELTA. I post on many boards, and will continue to advise AGAINST undertaking these and similar undertakings which could be questionable.

Thailand is home to many sharp practices. Many people, local and foreign, dream up schemes to seduce the gullible, just as many people in teaching, local and foreign, have good hearts. Of course, there are many more schemes which have nothing to do with education, public service and so on. There are schemes which involve Real Estate swindles, counterfeiting and everything else.

Anybody may pm me. I have a lot of contacts, and will give advice about any specific job or TEFL course here in Thailand.

Personally, I don't live near the beach, don't drink beer and live quietly with my long-term Thai boyfriend (never touched a girl in 35 years).

P Eddy

[MaiPenRai]

So again I agree with most of the statements made. And can agree to disagree on the others. I do feel that there are there are good and bad people wherever you go in the world including Thailand. I think true scams are easy to spot.

I do think that there are too many TEFL schools in Thailand who use false advertising. Most will claim to be Internationally recognized (usually they just get a no-name Uni in America or UK to sponser them) and one (no names) even claims to be a non-profit organization (or at least used to) and it ain't. These are fine if you plan on teaching only in Thailand and can actually be better than a CELTA depending on what your needs are. Thailand courses tend to have a focus on Thai schools, Thai students, Thai language and culture which can be helpful if you plan on staying here. The CELTA will not focus on country specific issues usually. The CELTA is far and away the best and most recognized course (Yes, I have my CELTA) and I would recommend it to any person who is serious about ESL as a career.

Again, any TEFL school or recruiter that offers guaranteed jobs, be sure to ask many questions and ask to talk to teachers currently and/or previously working with the company or school.

Good Luck to all new teachers out there. have a positive attitude and be open to new things and adventure. Living in fear and anger is no way to live.

PEddy no disrespect ever intended, just got me on a bad day. I as well dont live near a beach and live quietly with my long term Thai partner.

But I do enjoy a cold Singha now and then. Cheers!

[FarangFarang]

At the risk of being "picky" EFL would be a better description of teaching English in Thailand. ESL is taught in countries where English is the national or predominant language.

The teaching strategies are sometimes different.

I agree that CELTA is a very good course and the way to go for newbies. If you are serious about this as a career then that would naturally be followed by DELTA etc.

I disagree to a certain extent that CELTA is required for MOST jobs in the Middle East. That would definately be an MA in TESOL or Applied Linguistics for the better paying positions.

[zorro (4)]

I think most (well paid) jobs in the Middle East ask for a TEFL / CELTA cert and an MA in Applied Linguistics / TESOL.

http://tesolarabia.org/conference/jobfair/jobList.php

[MaiPenRai]

Yes, FF, although true, that is a bit "picky".

The CELTA + relevant B.A is often the minimum requirements for M.E work. Of course the best and highest paying jobs are going to go to those who have exp (especially exp in the M.E) and to those with an M.A in a relevant field as a lot of the M.E work is in colleges and Unis.

What schools and Universities ask for are not always what they get. Because most have the money in the M.E, they have the luxory of asking for the highest qulaifications. ESL or EFL work is often (like many things in life) applying or being there at the right time. Many schools, anywhere in the world, will lower their restrictions/expectations if they cant find exactly what they want in the time they have.

To get back to the OP. A B.A in English and a CELTA will certainly qualify you to apply for the starter jobs in the M.E. probably not a good Uni, but language school stuff or low end prep school/tech college stuff.