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jfurgers
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 442
Location: Mexico City
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El Gallo
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 318
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 Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| And how many Mexicans including police officers have been killed because Gringos love their drugs, pay a high price for them (making narco-trafficking lucrative) and receive blood money smuggling arms and ammunition into Mexico to arm drug cartels? |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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The article is surprisingly balanced. I was about to question if the number 200 was broken down into innocents and those involved in organized crime, but the article addressed that.
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| Although, historically, even Mexico’s most violent urban centers had homicide rates below those of major U.S. cities, recent attacks and border violence driven by drug demand have escalated well beyond limited narco-executions. |
(rare that we see this fact published)
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The Chronicle analysis showed some American homicide victims were involved in organized crime. The dead include at least two dozen victims labeled hitmen, drug dealers, human smugglers or gang members, based on published investigators’ accusations. Others were drug users or wanted for crimes in the United States.
But in at least 70 other cases, U.S. citizens appear to have been killed while in Mexico for innocent reasons: visiting family, taking a vacation, or simply living or working there. |
So about 14 Americans killed per year since 2004. While any and all such deaths are tragic and atrocious, considering the millions of trips made annually across the border, it appears that it's actually safer for an American to be in Mexico than back home? |
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awest
Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 34
Location: DF
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the article I think people just hear of a few gruesome deaths and think...wow not safe. Statistically a larger city in the US have well over 200 homicides a year. Take a midwest city like Kansas City they have about 120 homicides a year.
I feel extremely safe in Mexico. |
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Mekyn
Joined: 16 Jan 2009
Posts: 30
Location: Cuernavaca
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the article. After hearing of what's going on down there I have had second thoughts about moving there.  However, from what I read it seems that most of the violence is near the boarder and that the victims are either involved with the drug cartels or just wandered into the wrong place.
So if I fly into Mexico and don't get involved with drugs I should be good right? What are your thoughts about the safety of where you live? Does anyone live close to the boarder? Are there any places in Mexico that would not be safe other than near the boarder? I appreciate learning from your experiences. I plan on being there around May or June.  |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:09 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Mekyn"
So if I fly into Mexico and don't get involved with drugs I should be good right? What are your thoughts about the safety of where you live? Does anyone live close to the boarder? |
[/quote]
I live smack dab in the middle of the country, in the center of the D.F., to be exact, and always fly here from the States, so I can't give you my impressions about safety at the border with the US and Mexico. I can tell you that I feel extremely safe in my pleasant middle-class neighborhood and equally safe when visiting other parts of the city. I certainly feel safer here than I do when spending time in Philadelphia, the city of my birth. I should add that I don't drive and get around on foot or on various forms of public transportation. |
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john_n_carolina
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 700
Location: n. carolina
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:12 am Post subject: |
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...this is apples and oranges -- you can't compare the two. especially, when you have people of different ages, location, growing up, knowledge, opinions, actual statisitical info, etc.
i'm n. carolina now and the crime rate varies within 10 miles. one suburb is a paradise / heaven and the other is a shootout.
in addition, most U.S. homicides are "acquaintence" homicides and very rarely are intended for strangers.
i don't have the time to go through my links of stats but if you do some research (on NY e.g.) you'll see the stats.
i tend to watch out for drunk drivers, not people in the street carrying 45s. |
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fladude
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| Guy Courchesne wrote: |
So about 14 Americans killed per year since 2004. While any and all such deaths are tragic and atrocious, considering the millions of trips made annually across the border, it appears that it's actually safer for an American to be in Mexico than back home? |
Last year the Jacksonville, Florida, police shot 28 people to death.
Something to think about. |
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awest
Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 34
Location: DF
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| You are correct john n carolina but there is a good percentage of innocent people that get injured or killed also. I have been in law enforcement for 18 years and you would be amazed. |
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thelmadatter
Joined: 31 Mar 2003
Posts: 1212
Location: in el Distrito Federal x fin!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:50 am Post subject: arizona |
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I lived 11 years near the US/Mexico border in Arizona (Sierra Vista and Tucson) Drug violence was a definite concern and still very much is. This is especially true for those living in rural areas near drug and people-smuggling routes.
As far as passing through the land border, Ive never had any problems. I even spent part of the late night at a bus station in Agua Prieta Sonora waiting for the 6 am bus to take me to Tucson. No problem at all, though bus stations in general tend to be pretty safe.
In Mexico City, drug violence is not really a problem (lots of crime here but mostly against property)... its more of a problem in border areas and some rural areas in states like Sinaloa and Michoacan (Felipe Calderon's home state). In these areas, the narcos have as much as de facto control of the area.
I think it will get worse, much worse, before it gets better. And it really wont get better until we give up this silly, destructive Puritan/Prohibition mindset as far as drugs. Yes, Im talking legalization/decriminalization of most, if not all, of them. But we are nowhere near that point yet.
Despite all of this, if you stay out of the drug business and perhaps the areas where the narcos are most brazen, you should be just fine. |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| fladude wrote: |
| Guy Courchesne wrote: |
So about 14 Americans killed per year since 2004. While any and all such deaths are tragic and atrocious, considering the millions of trips made annually across the border, it appears that it's actually safer for an American to be in Mexico than back home? |
Last year the Jacksonville, Florida, police shot 28 people to death.
Something to think about. |
Indeed!
The article brings up an issue...that of the apprehension rate in Mexico, which is abysmally low. If you are a victim of a crime here in Mexico, odds are very good you'll get no justice. If you're a victim of crime in the US, odds are much better they will catch the crook. That sounds odd when you think of things along the lines of justice being a deterent..more violent crime in the US and more crooks caught...yet you have a far lower crime rate in Mexico.
My father-in-law is a retired cop in Ottawa, Canada. City of 1 million people, so not small but not large. In 35 years of service he drew his weapon only once and did not fire. Some cops in US cities? Well, shoot first and ask questions later seems to be the safest bet for them.
Sorry, step father, not father-in-law.  And he wasn't a mountie. Only a city cop.
Last edited by Guy Courchesne on Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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awest
Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 34
Location: DF
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:20 am Post subject: |
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In 2007 more police officers were killed in the US than in the last 10 years. Florida was amazingly high. It was like a rash...an officer pulled a vehicle over for traffic and the guy shot him. Left a wife and small children.
This would be a reason for me changing careers. In todays society (US) you just never know if you are stopping a person with a grudge, crazy, or just plan mad.
Guy is correct the Mounties seem to have better statistics than US police. I have worked with several out of Winipeg. They are great and very professional in Canada.
I think I would still rather be pulled over in the US than Mexico though. |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 720
Location: Chillinfernow, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:31 am Post subject: |
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deleted
out of date
Last edited by Dragonlady on Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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notamiss
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 908
Location: El 5o pino del la CDMX
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:41 am Post subject: |
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...duplicate post deleted.
Last edited by notamiss on Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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notamiss
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 908
Location: El 5o pino del la CDMX
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