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So -- When is an Arab an Arab?
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

redeyes wrote:
Thanks 007 -- now, can you tell me,and I am adhering to your definitions-- is an Iraqi Jew an Arab? Is a Lebanese Christian an Arab?

If they satisfy the 3 conditions in the same time, then the answer to your questions is yes.

Arab Jews and Arab Christians existed in the Middle East, including Madinah of Saudi Arabia of today, before the coming of Islam. The Arab jews and Christians use the word "Allah" for GOD in the Arabic Talmud and other Christian holy scripts. Also, some Arab Jews and Christians use the name Abdallah as a last name.

Take for example the Berber people of North Africa, the majority speak Arabic, and some of them do not consider themselves as Arabs, but as Berber and Muslims.
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Gulezar



Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 483

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:03 pm    Post subject: Don't mean to be cruel Reply with quote

"ALL the Muslims I have met from the Middle East, without fail ... ", but for me the statement seemed a bit odd. You've been reminded that Kurds, Iranian and Berbers (who apparently you have never met) are Muslims and that language, culture or "blood" might define this group, and not only religion. I hope you've been enlightened. I certainly have learned that one doesn't need to disccus such questions with those who have already made their minds up on a question before they ask it. Oh, yes there is a small population of Kuwaiti Jews, too. Where would you like to put them?
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asking querstions is the easy bit. Finding answers is the problem.

But my question is,"Why do you ask ?"
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redeyes



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 254

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scot, check PM's.

RE
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sheikh radlinrol



Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
Asking querstions is the easy bit. Finding answers is the problem.

But my question is,"Why do you ask ?"

Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused
Do any of you Brits remember ''Colemanballs'' in ''Private Eye''?
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankly, redeyes, your insistence on this is bizarre.

With regard to Lebanese Christians I hope I have explained it. They are deliberately distancing themselves from Muslims and Palestinians.

With regard to Jews there is a virulent controversy as to whether Judaism spread as a result of exile or conversion. The fact that the language of most Sephardi Jews, ladino, is a dialect of Spanish pushes the debate back a few hundred years, but it's still there.

As has been pointed out 'Arab' is a most peculiar term; it describes a language but not an ethnicity, even though most speakers of the language seem to be genetically close. And of course it is used to refer to people from the Arabian peninsula, and from a much wider swathe of land including most of North Africa (and let's not open the can of worms of 'Arabs' in the Sudan).

And then there is the political influence of pan-Arabism, which was very strong in the sixties.


Last edited by Stephen Jones on Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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matthew156



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 140
Location: The Majik Kindom

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:06 pm    Post subject: language and the mid east Reply with quote

Must have been the original language of ancient babyl
anyways it seems were heading for that time again with the push of English as an International Language or lingua franca. But I believe if the emperor of China, back in the 1400s, hadn't abandoned his trade routes in the Indian Ocean and the east coast of Africa we would have all been teaching Chinese as an International Language.

Well come to think of it we may be in a couple of decades anyways

Matt
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redeyes



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 254

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sjones wrote -- "Frankly, redeyes, your insistence on this is bizarre."

Stephen, since I honestly didn't know why some ME Xtians and ME ( not Ashkenazi) Jews I have known or worked with, refused and rejected being considered Arab, I made an open question to those who I thought would know -- I am not "insisting" on anything. What is so bizarre about posing an open question? What is it you think I am "insisting on"? Maybe you see a ( trolling) provocative motive in my posts which frankly isn't there.

My post was made in exactly the same spirit as someone who queries what it means to be British. What defines Britishness? -- is that a bizarre question?

Not all of us who post here have worked in the ME for years and years as many of the board regulars have, and thus not all of us know these finer points of ethnic/political affiliation and definition -- What seems like a very obvious question to you, may not be to others.

Anyway, thanks for the answers -- now I do know.
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: Don't mean to be cruel Reply with quote

Gulezar wrote:
I certainly have learned that one doesn't need to disccus such questions with those who have already made their minds up on a question before they ask it.

I take it, then, that you've met my wife? Laughing



NCTBA
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