Job Discussion Forums

[Eric]

When I first came to Japan I was eager to learn the language and I assumed that learning Japanese would make life easier. Now that I have been here awhile I find the opposite is true and I still think that is so strange.

When someoene comes from a non-English speaking country they are expected to learn English and when they do they can usually make friends with the local populace and talk in the language of the country. In Japan, when you meet someone new Japanese people always seem to expect you not to speak Japanese and if they find that you can many times the conversation revolves around the speaking of japanese rather than a normal conversation. This is not always the case of course and I have a very few people who are okay with simply communicating with me rather than discussing the intracacies of learning language, but these folks are few and far between. Although I enjoy the study of japanese I sometimes find it about as useful in Japan as ancient greek or Hawaiian Language. I am glad that I have made some progress in the study of Japanese, but I think this language is much easier to study at a Univerisity in ones home country rather than in japan.

The other thing that makes learning Japanese difficult is the style of teaching employed by many Japanese teachers. Very repetious and maybe effective if you want to converse very politely with older folks, but not very useful for normal conversation. Often the type of polite Japanese that is tuaght is only useful to speak to someone who probably much rather communicate with you in basic English anyway. Whenever my community center class is learning japanese the teachers love to make comments like (this is very difficult) meaning that it is probably above us.

To those that continue to study Japanese I think it's a worthwhile endever but to those that decided to throw in the towel I completely understand why.

[Brooks]

that is true.
I found it a bit of a chore trying to find a good time to go to class at one of the community centers, where the classes were free (100 yen for photocopying).
In the end I had to go on Friday and Saturday evenings.
Many classes were in the mornings, or when I had to work.
I found that odd.

I found language exchanges don't work because most Japanese people have no clue how to teach their own language.

Lots of books for learning Japanese are really dull with a lack of pictures.

[JL]

I've sort of played around on the fringes of the central theme of this thread. And I'm not going to get off the fence just yet. But I will comment on something I think Eric touches on, namely, if you are inclined to learn to speak Japanese, at times you will have to truly be assertive. There are those who will insist on only talking to you in English (as we have amply discussed, here). There are those who will never take you seriously -who will never take off the kids gloves, so to speak- when they do talk to you in Japanese (and this often can be a significant other, mind you). And as much as anything else, you may well have your own inhibitions, shyness, embarrassment -call it what you want. For individuals who have decided to study or improve their Japanese, these are things you can't let beat you down.

[Eric]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think in Japan and perhaps in other Asian countries language is much more connected to identity then it is in English speaking countries. In the U.S., language is only a means to communicate so when I meet someone here if there English is better than my Japanese I always want to use english to communicate, but if my Japanese is more advanced then their English it seems silly to have a basic conversation.

Why do you think there seems to be an unwillingness for many Japanese people to speak Japanese with foreignors? Is it because English is something you pay for and should be practiced or is it becuase since you look different you should not be speaking Japanese? I still don't know the answer.

[JL]

For starters, I can't believe I'm still awake...
This will have to be my last post for the night.

As for your observtion about English, and how we American's perceive it --I think you've hit on something, there. I don't feel, as an American, that English, inherently, belongs to some people, and not to others. Now that is not to say that I don't take pride in English as my own language. I could go on and on about the subtleties, the nuances, the sophistication, the ever-changing flexibility and adaptativeness of the language, but I'll spare everyone any more on that. I also take pride in how, in a rather short time, Americans have added quite a bit to the language. But all that said, English, after all, comes from England. I am descended from five different European peoples, none whose native tongue is English. So at least speaking for myself, NO -I don't feel the same amount exclusive ownership of the language, as say a Frenchman must feel about French, or a Japanese does about Japanese. But I am very curious as to how our British friends will answer this question. I look forward to seeing some of their responses, tomorrow.

[elkarlo]

[elkarlo]

Oh I have an online Eigo Bandit story. So I put up an add on Japan-guide for language exchange. Some lady contacts me. We excahnge emails. I did from work where I can't type nor see in kanji. I went home and sent her an email in Japanese. Haven't heard from her sense.

Maybe I shouldn't have used "boku". I am such a dork=)

[Vince]

[elkarlo]

[Glenski]

[Vince]

[elkarlo]

[elkarlo]

Oh I got another penpal, that lives in the area that I will move to. Seriosuly who teaches Japanese people these words, and grammar structures. Everything is super sexual, like "want to play with you" or "I badly want to meet you". Asobu should be translated as hang out, and not play.

[JL]

[elkarlo]