| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
shantaram
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 42
Location: Montreal, Quebec
|
 Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:13 am Post subject: Finding Montreal STUDENT difficult |
 |
|
Hi,
I have been teaching in Montreal for three months now. I solely teach francophones, mostly from Montreal, a few from France. I haven't had enough time or hours to really sink my teeth into this job yet but I am starting to grow a feeling that my students don't want to be taught. Almost every student I have sat down with has balked at being corrected. I realise this makes my job easier because I can ignore their mistakes, but I would prefer to do my job and become good at it. Instead, my students expect me by and large to just engage in conversation with them and one even went so far as to say, when asked to use 'boring' in a comparative sentence, that having her mistakes corrected was more boring than... (fill in the blank, she didn't finish the sentence). They are paying a lot of money and they are the customer, so I guess it's up to them if they want to waste their time like that. I am wondering if anyone has any observations about teaching Montrealers that might help me as a non-Montrealer to grease the wheels with my students?[/b]
Last edited by shantaram on Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:43 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
What kind of class is this? Are they interested in improving their conversation for job purposes (since a lot of jobs in Montreal require them to be bilingual - at least orally)? I know too much error correction can frustrate students.
Those are just my thoughts, I'm not in Montreal but I have stayed there for a while and my SO and his family are all from Quebec. They like to share their ESL learning experiences with me all the time and the main reason they learned English was to speak with customers on the phone.
Good luck! I will be back there next year, I hope things improve! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shantaram
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 42
Location: Montreal, Quebec
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, they are learning conversation for job purposes.
Thanks for your reply, I will do some research on error correction. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sweeney66
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 147
Location: "home"
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I currently have a spanish teacher who believes that it's necessary to correct every error. I would like to kill her. The result? Everybody is afraid to open their mouths in class. Do research how to/ when to correct. For starters, only correct what has been taught that day. Do wait for them to finish talking. Respond to the content of what they said, then ask them to self-correct. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cassava
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 175
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Finding Montreal students difficult |
|
|
| Quote: |
I have been teaching in Montreal for three months now. I solely teach francophones, mostly from Montreal, a few from France. I haven't had enough time or hours to really sink my teeth into this job yet but I am starting to grow a feeling that my students don't want to be taught. Almost every student I have sat down with has balked at being corrected.
|
A lot has to do with the age group that you are teaching and the methods that you use to correct mistakes. Are you pleasant and polite to students or do you terrify them? Do you comment on every minor flaw or do you correct only major errors?
| Quote: |
| I realise this makes my job easier because I can ignore their mistakes, but I would prefer to do my job and become good at it. Instead, my students expect me by and large to just engage in conversation with them |
Your emphasis will depend on what kind of program you are using and what the benchmarks are. Many students might want to concentrate on improving their oral skills simply because they consider fluency in English to be of primary importance, given the fact that Canada is officially bilingual (French/English)
| Quote: |
and one even went so far as to say, when asked to use 'boring' in a comparative sentence, that having her mistakes corrected was more boring than... (fill in the blank, she didn't finish the sentence).
|
Did you think that perhaps she simply could not think of a relevant comparison? You should know that this sort of situation is by no means unique to speakers of a second language.
| Quote: |
They are paying a lot of money and they are the customer, so I guess it's up to them if they want to waste their time like that. I am wondering if anyone has any observations about teaching Montrealers that might help me as a non-Montrealer to grease the wheels with my students?
|
First of all, Montreal students are not monolithic, a fact that you need to understand. Secondly, I think that your questions reveal a profound lack of knowledge about the psychology of education, second-language teaching methodologies, and the sociology of classroom interaction. You have to improve your pedagogy as quickly as possible in order to be fair to your students. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shantaram
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 42
Location: Montreal, Quebec
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thanks for your advice cassava, although I did find some of it to be cynical and unnecessarily dismissive of my aptitude. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Since you are in Montreal anyways, I would recommend checking out McGill's bookstore, they have a fantastic BEd in TESL program and should have some great books for error correction. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shantaram
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 42
Location: Montreal, Quebec
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thanks for the tips sweeney and santi. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Je ne parle pas francais tres bien mais bonne chance avec tes etudiants! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shantaram
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 42
Location: Montreal, Quebec
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Selon moi, tes fran�ais est tr�s bon. Merci! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanica
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 368
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
One specific error correction tip is not to point out the error, but rather to reflect the corrected phrase back to the student, without the student noticing that they are being corrected.
''Teacher, I want go home.''
''OH, I want to go home, too! Do you want to go home? Who wants to go home? We all want to go home!''
Don't highlight the word to because you don't want the student to feel shamed. It will be hard at first, because the tone has already been set, but you'll get through it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shantaram
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 42
Location: Montreal, Quebec
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Thank you Vanica for the constructive advice! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Vanica wrote: |
One specific error correction tip is not to point out the error, but rather to reflect the corrected phrase back to the student, without the student noticing that they are being corrected.
''Teacher, I want go home.''
''OH, I want to go home, too! Do you want to go home? Who wants to go home? We all want to go home!''
Don't highlight the word to because you don't want the student to feel shamed. It will be hard at first, because the tone has already been set, but you'll get through it. |
This sort of surreptitious error correction is what the TEFL course I took endorsed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Finding Montreal students difficult |
|
|
| shantaram wrote: |
Hi,
I have been teaching in Montreal for three months now. I solely teach francophones, mostly from Montreal, a few from France. I haven't had enough time or hours to really sink my teeth into this job yet but I am starting to grow a feeling that my students don't want to be taught. Almost every student I have sat down with has balked at being corrected. I realise this makes my job easier because I can ignore their mistakes, but I would prefer to do my job and become good at it. Instead, my students expect me by and large to just engage in conversation with them and one even went so far as to say, when asked to use 'boring' in a comparative sentence, that having her mistakes corrected was more boring than... (fill in the blank, she didn't finish the sentence). They are paying a lot of money and they are the customer, so I guess it's up to them if they want to waste their time like that. I am wondering if anyone has any observations about teaching Montrealers that might help me as a non-Montrealer to grease the wheels with my students? |
I wonder how much of that has to do with the bit of cultural animosity that Quebecers tend to have toward Anglophone Canada. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shantaram
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 42
Location: Montreal, Quebec
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| This sort of surreptitious error correction is what the TEFL course I took endorsed. |
Yes, I have a CELTA and have taught before, and this style of error correction is part of the method at my workplace, so I'm well aware of it, but I appreciate the comments people have made in this thread. The activity I was conducting with my student was one where error correction was required. It was a restricted practise exercise focusing on 'Where are + the + plural noun' vs 'Where is + the + singular noun'. The student spat the dummy because I corrected her at all. She just wanted to 'practise conversation'. But what does that actually mean- I mean in her mind? Plenty of students want to practise conversation, but which students want structured activities leading into conversation and then feedback, and which students have just been forced into English lessons by their workplaces and want to 'practise conversation' in order to get out of actually doing anything? I'm starting to get a clearer picture of the situation. Work has been slow over the winter break, so I haven't had enough contact with the students to keep learning about them. It's picking up now again though. The truth is that some of my students use the lessons as a kind of break-time from their normal work (I work solely with corporate clients). Others are more serious. This particular student had a job lined up and needed to take the English course to get the job. I don't think improvement was her goal, rather just to be marked present on the roll. After complaining about being corrected, complaining about my accent to my boss ("C'est pas normale"), and doing this loudly so the whole centre including myself could hear, it turned out that she didn't get the job, because someone else with more 'international experience' came along. She wrote a nice card to my workplace thanking everybody for their hard work, though. [/i] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
