Job Discussion Forums

[Gav22]

I work for a McEF in Jakarta, and get paid 6.7 Million per month (my first year with no BA and a Trinity Cert. TESOL).

I hear people complain every single day about salaries and struggling, and I understand completely that situations vary, but here's a low-down of mine:

I save at least $100 every month, if I stretch, $2-300. If I want to spend everything I can eat out every single day twice a day with my girlfriend here (having an Indonesian girlfriend will add a considerable amount on what you have to spend), and I have been on vacation three times within Indonesa - To Yogya, Bali and the Gili Islands. I live in a guarded compound with coconut laden palm trees everywhere, and I work about 4 hours a day (not including the two I spend "lesson planning").

It's all down to the individual. Truth is relative, and you can either come here and make the best of it, or be a bitch and have a shitty time wherever you go. up to you.

That said - if you are coming to Indonesia - be ready for the following things:

A) Heat you may NEVER have felt or imagined
B) A LOT of staring and even groping (if your female).
C) A big invasion of your personal space by curious locals
D) Being called a "Bule" - basically by everyone, which is the white equivalent of the N word, this to Indonesians is not rude.
E) Muslim Culture - it's all well and good to think your an open minded person and come down here with bright ideas, but be ready for some restrictions on your personal freedoms you might not have encountered before
F) Depending on your location, you might need to be ready for 4 am wake up calls as the local Muslim Cleric screams like a drowning cat through loudspeakers (No, Muslims don't believe in the concept of private worship, EVERYONE must be subjected to it).
G) Pollution, traffic, litter (only in JKT, I cant comment for elsewhere).
H) Culture shock
I) Having the shits regularly (or at least once)
J) SPICY FOOD

Hope that helps

[TEAM_PAPUA]

[eddie honda]

[Zorobabel]

This is a fairly accurate scale. I came to Indonesia with a BA in English and token TEFL certification and made 7.85 million at EF my first year. Now I'm making about 13 at another language school. I would like to further climb the ESL ladder in the future, so I'm considering what other qualifications I should pursue. Would getting my CELTA improve my chances of getting a job in an international school?

[eddie honda]

depends what school and what job. might help you get a job as an esl specialist at a school. other than that probably not (but that is just my opinion).

theres lots of international and nat + schools of various qualities. some may pay well but are managed worse than a bad EF. you could get a job at many nat + or international schools with your qualifications. just apply to lots, then with experience more doors open to you later. careful tho cos some of them are truly awful.

[gajackson1]

hmmm - I hope someone can be of help here -

I have been in Brunei these last 5 months, looking for a job, applying everywhere, and coming up about empty. By the end of this week I get word on my last decent job prospect - but if it is a no-go, I need to be moving on by the end of February.

Quals: BA from US university. Double majors, Applied Linguistics (Speech Comm) and Political Theory (Poli Sci). I have my lifetime Texas State secondary education teaching certification for the full range of speech-related courses, as well as Government, for grades 6-12.

3 years public school teaching in Texas, then 10 years of living & working in South Korea. Good, well rounded jobs there. Private schools (teacher and head foreign teacher), teacher trainer for the MoE, 2 years business teaching at a large company (Kimberly-Clark), and a whole lot of other nice CV looking experiences. I was offered some uni lecturer posts, but turned them down (sort of wishing I had done that now for 2-3 years, though).

120-hour residency based TESOL cert through TEFL Intl. in 2005. And great references all across the career span. Clean paperwork.

So, although I do not have an MA, PhD, CELTA, or 'UK creds,' I have still managed to do quite well over the past 15 years. I was TRULY hoping to get a job here in Brunei - but the USA passport/education combo is an effective no-hire here, despite my other qualifications & experience. (if you are a qualified/certified teacher, from anyplace BUT the USA, with 3+ years of exp, consider looking into the jobs here - esp. the CfBT packages).

I had been looking at just moving on to the Middle East/Med/North Africa, but I'd love to stay in Asia - iff (not a typo ) I could get a good salary and/or good chances to move up the ladders quickly. I know the cost of living would be lower, the climate more pleasant - but I also want to save money, and not live like a hermit, either.

So for the vets, what should I be looking at/applying for to start (both the type of schools/jobs & rough salary range)? If it makes a difference (it does in Korea), I am male, Caucasian, 40 (look 30), single, outgoing/friendly, but a pretty hard worker & liked/respected teacher. No heavy religious leanings, if that makes any difference.

Thanks for any help/perspective here. Singapore is in a pretty bad spiral, but I could be happy in Indo - with the right kind of job for where I thought I was making a real contribution to a program/school/community.

Regards,

Glen

[Madame J]

[malu]

[rayman]

Hi Glen,

As malu mentioned, International and National Plus schools are your best bet.

Of the international schools in Jakarta, I'd recommend sending your CV to the following;

British International School
Jakarta International School
Australian International School
ACG International School
New Zealand International School

There are lots more so called 'international' schools, but these are the only I'd recommend. I might add, NZIS only scrapes through by a fine hair. The order I've listed the schools is also the order of the salary packages

BIS is widely regarded as having the best package for any international school in the world. As such, it's very tough to get in.

With your experience, at AIS, you be on roughly US$50 000/year (including housing). At ACG, you'd get around US44000/year (including housing). All packages include med insurance, return airfares etc.

The only two National Plus schools I'd recommend are; Tiara Bangsa and Global Jaya. They pay salaries similar to ACG and NZIS and have facilities similar to the better international schools.

You'd be better of applying as a secondary English teacher. As Malu said, ESL teachers are a dime a dozen. But there's no harm in applying for both.

Most Schools will start their hiring from around December/January for the July/August start. Although AIS and NZIS work on a southern hemisphere calendar and so may even be looking for people now (if they haven't hired already).

Outside Jakarta, other schools with decent salaries include; Bali International School and Australian International School (in Balikpapan).

There's also Mt. Zaagham International School in West Papua. I met some teachers from there during an IB course and it sounds surreal. Heralded as the most isolated international school in the world.

Hope some of that helps.

Good luck

[gajackson1]

Dear Rayman-

For the last 10 years, I've been helping people & supplying advice on the Korean boards (where I am also gajackson1), as well as serving a stint there as a mod. I want to thank you for taking the time to post this up.

Even though the Korean board has a fair share of trolls, there are genuinely good, helpful, concerned people over there who take the time to help.

For me, trying to get information on the Middle East boards has been like squeezing water from rocks. It is frustrating to put up esentially the same topic, and have 300+ people read it, and only get replies back like 'Just go back to Korea, or back to the USA.' Or, even worse 'there are good jobs out there; you just have to look for them. But avoid the bad places, too!'

Th those salary ranges, I could neet my goals - it might take slightly longer than an ME tour, but Asian climate & lifestyle are sooooo much more attractive to me.

Sincere regards,

Glen

PS - again, for anyone looking for a good salary & lifestyle, look into Brunei via the CfBT program. If you meet the requirements, they ARE understaffed right now!

[ladoblanco]

Does anyone have know the approximate salary for a person with a B.A. and a CELTA but without any experience? That particular combo wasn't mentioned.

Thanks.

[Vertumnus]

That's good info, but I would add this:

How much you need to live comfortably depends greatly on your own lifestyle, whether you have dependents, and where you live in Jakarta - or any other city, for that matter.

I would say that salaries in Bali are probably pretty close to Jakarta (try the Green School, too), but in quiet places like Semarang (even though it's a provincial capitol), you will never get close to the high-end of the spectrum listed, and the low end starts at about 3-4jt (less for unis).

Universities in Indonesia tend to offer about the same (or less) as language schools, although there are definitely exceptions. I've politely laughed away lecturing posts at unis in Indonesia where they offered less than 3jt, and that's fairly high-end compared to local salaries.

In fact, I once took a free-lance job at a uni, where I worked strictly part-time, and I was paid 2.5jt - more than almost all of the locals - even those with better degrees than me who were working full time! And I didn't have to do any paperwork!

If you are single, you can expect to live quite comfortably if you're not the sort that strolls Jalan Jaksa every so often, or looks for drugs and hookers on the Kuta Beach road. If you are the sort that goes to places like BATS, then you'll definitely be looking at extra expenses since those gals don't want the frugal treatment! Going to bars and nightclubs, regularly eating out at "quality" restaurants, and all that will quickly add up.

If you don't mind the occassional diarrhea, possibly food poisoning or even formaldehyde/textile dye/borox poisoning, try a streetside stall. The traditional markets are also another interesting place - but stay away from the meat - everyone touches it, plus the bugs! However, just because a place looks high class doesn't mean they're not "spicing" up the food with extra colors and preservatives, if you know what I mean!

No certificates? No appropriate degrees? For many companies (yes, even national plus/international schools), this is not a problem. They'll simply forge the documents, and pay an agent to bribe the appropriate officials.

Mila, if you are black, you're going to have it tough in Indonesia. I'm so sorry - it's really quite superficial here. People here assume that blacks are Nigerian drug-runners. I'd suggest looking for work in or near the provinces of Papua, where natives resemble Africans, and NTT, where there is a proportion of natives who resemble Africans I might even be able to put you into contact with a guy from the MoE in NTT.

megloulou: Female teachers are always in demand. Aside from what was said before about being put into primary and pre-primary, I suspect females are held in higher regard...(shrug) perhaps they're less likely to go to Jalan Jaksa?

One final detail - promises and contracts, according to eastern ideas, are much different than the western conception of them. And, in the end, if you are having a contractual problem with your employer, you have two real choices: put up with it or run away. Do NOT take it to court - I have it from reliable sources (lawyers and members of the anti-corruption commission) that court battles are won with money, not truth.

Again and again, I have observed that people respect the word mungkin (maybe) more than they respect the word janji (promise)! Go for a sumpah (swear) - that's pretty strong.

As a final aside, stay away from English First. Best of luck!

-D

[wannaBguru]

i tend to think rayman is a bit generous on his salary assessments. but everyone has different experiences and knows different people at different types of schools making different wages. in regards to the salaries at bis and jis........ these might be true of overseas hires, but local hires are very different. at jis, the starting salary for local native speaker is about 2500 dollars with minimal benefits. the salary and benefits increase the longer u work there. a friend of mine got a job at AIS a few years ago and was given a starting salary of 30,000. he was promoted to HOD and was given 32,500/yr. over the years i have had many friends work at ACG and most started at 2-2500 dollars. most of these schools use a recruitment agency for overseas hires but local hires are done directly.

and for GAV22. yeah u can survive on an EF salary, but not much else. i have met scores of ef teachers over the years, some of them working there for 3+ years. yeah they eat out and/or get drunk sometimes and might even do a budget trip to bali. but they dont have much money in the bank. usually just saving for a trip or something. i cant remembe meeting an ef teacher that had a car, tv, home/apt, furniture, hd tv, motorcycle or anything else of value. most of them have to ring their parents for airfare if they get fired. for u to save 300 dollars in one month means that u can only spead about 3 million on food, entertainmant, transportation, drinks, clothes..... etc. hell most hp's cost more than that. its cool to do if u just want an overseas living experience, but doesnt quite fit ef's ad ......... generous salary that allows u to live a comfortable life style............ you have to budget and save to just make the end of the month, much less enjoy yourself and have a great time.

[malu]

[JZer]

Is it possible to pick up extra money working Saturdays in Jakarta?