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[kidkensei]

The first 5 things I notice about trying to learn Japanese is 1) the consonant L is non-existent, 2) articles such as a, an, and the are non-existent 3) plural forms are non existent 4) future tense is non-existent and 5) possessive nouns are non-existent.

I'm sure there are countless other differences that can be found through learning Japanese on one's own and observing Japanese students learning English as a second language.

For all you veteran English teachers out there, what do you think are the most important differences to know when correcting Japanese learners of English??

Cheers
Kenji

[Glenski]

[wayne432]

I agree with Glenski on the first 2 quoted points.

[elkarlo]

Well the thing is there is future form. Same as English has one, "I am going to..." To be honest instead of worrying about a formula for Japanese just learn it and don;t think about it too hard, or you're liable to make yourself go nuts.

For Japanese, they usually need to learn to pronounce words with out using katakana English. Also I have graded Japanese college students in America papers' they never used "the" appropiately, and they were basically fluent.

[JL]

[kidkensei]

Thanks JL. It doesn't hurt to be reminded again.

Let me reframe my question here.

There seems to be two levels of difference between Japanese and English.

1) there are categories, forms of expression that are simply left out or don't exist

Generally kanji aren't used in english. The letter L and other combinations of sounds/pronunciations aren't used in japanese.

Not pronouncing L in english words creates a small gap in communication for the english listener so why not use this as a reference point for helping japanese learners of english.


2) lets suppose there are categories in japanese (particles etc) that do exist in english but seeing them makes english extremely complex. It might require one to see an overlapping between other traditional functions. Seeing english this way would make translation difficult and speaking almost impossible. Like glenski said, these differences are complex and deeply embedded in culture.

Some of these might be interesting to talk about, others would make your head spin but few I gather would in fact help you learn how to speak and understand English.


So really my question deals with #1,

Are there things present in English language that don't exist in japanese and if so, how do teachers use them as starting points for learning?

[Glenski]

Relative pronouns like "that" and "which".

You start by telling them an equivalent in Japanese, or by explaining what it is you intend to teach (another kind of adjective, but this one has subject and verb). Examples, practice, eliciting, more examples and practice, go from there.

[Apsara]

Neither L nor R as pronounced in English exist in Japanese, and Japanese speakers often can't differentiate between the two- they substitute the closest Japanese sound for both. S and Sh are not well distinguished by many Japanese people, especially when an 'i' follows, leading to problems pronouncing words like city and babysitter.

[JL]

[seklarwia]

[JL]

Seklarwia,
Thank you.

[Apsara]

JL, I've noticed that the American pronunciation of the 'o' in words like hot sounds a lot like an 'a', but in NZ and Australia the 'o' in hot sounds almost identical to the Japanese pronunciation. I have heard some North American teachers actually correct this pronunciation though, not realising it's perfectly valid in some parts of the English-speaking world. I think elkarlo's mon-man confusion which I commented on a while ago also stems from the US pronunciation of that sound.

The same would go for words like "can't", "dance" etc, where in the US the vowel sound is very different to the Japanese "a", but in NZ our pronunciation of the vowel is almost the same as the Japanese "a". Vowel sounds vary so much between English speakers that insisting on a certain pronunciation can have pitfalls.

[JL]

Can't argue with the ladies.
Something was telling me as much (about the long "o"; I already knew the ladies are not to be messed with ), even as I was still typing my post.

[Sour Grape]

[markle]

An observation. JL I noticed that you used katakana to explain the sounds. While this is certainly common enough and and can make it easy to explain, I find it a needless delaying of the inevitable and often something you have to get the students to 'unlearn'. I avoid any reference to katakana, given that students by and large are familiar with the alphabet, although they often have a differing idea of the phonics of it. Which brings me to another thing I have to get students, especially schoolkids, to unlearn, romanji, not the alphabet but the roman script used to represent the Japanese kana.

I'm a great believer in using the tools deleloped by a culture to represent it's language. Also the best way to understand a language is not through the limiting spectrum of another language be it the writing system or the inherent differences between two language but learning it as a whole.