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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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 Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
Also
stoodent vs shudent
twosday vs chewsday
As well as:
tube vs chube
neanderthal vs neandertal
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NCTBA |
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Littlebird
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 82
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:03 pm Post subject: Stress in words - not a grammar question apparently ! |
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NCTBA
Don't your examples like Naturegirl's have the same stress just different pronounciation ?
SAM |
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Kaspar Hauser
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| Justin Trullinger wrote: |
| And Kaspar is right- your question is legit, but it isn't grammar. |
Thanks, Justin. What Littlebird asked has nothing to do with grammar nor was my comment "sarcastic". Methinks Littlebird should change his name to Littletraining or Littleexperience. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:10 am Post subject: |
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C'mon, Kaspar. Littlebird's correctly posting in the 'newbie' forum - it's a given that he/she has just got started.
And Littlebird's also politely taken on board what posters have offered - it's all positive. Don't slam him/her too hard. |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: Re: Stress in words - not a grammar question apparently ! |
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| Littlebird wrote: |
NCTBA
Don't your examples like Naturegirl's have the same stress just different pronounciation ?
SAM
Guilty as charged... 
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Littlebird
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 82
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:33 pm Post subject: Stress on Syllables |
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It is the tone of the remark have you tried looking in a dictionary. Of course I have that is bloody obvious and the dictionary does not tell me enough so I had to ask on the forum. If it is not a grammar question what is it ? Linguisitics ? Is it necessary to be so pedantic ? Shall I point out every spelling, grammar and punctuation mistake on this forum ? How annoying would that be ? 
I wish there was less sarcasm and retaliation on this forum !!
Littlebird is not male. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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It's a pronunciation question.
Please note that I've done what I could to defend you here. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Sam/Littlebird, I gave you a link months ago (in your previous actual 'Grammar Questions' thread) to a good online dictionary (the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary) that shows not only primary but also secondary stress. Here it is again:
http://www.oup.com/elt/catalogue/teachersites/oald7/?cc=global
Then there is the resource that BenE has referred you to ( www.dictionary.com ), which really is the sort of thing that you could've found for yourself (but if you are asking for a teaching guide of some sort that provides more than a dictionary's indication of stresses, please see the GBS results below).
A few links, just in case you're still unsure of what the notation in such dictionaries is meant to be representing in this case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_(linguistics)#Notation
http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/wells/ipa-english.htm (see section 4)
Also this, from the printed/paper OALDCE (note that any secondary stress always comes before the main stress, and that as words (derived ones) or phrases get longer, the main stress accordingly shifts a little more along to the right):
| Quote: |
The mark / ' / shows the main stress in a word. Compare 'able, stressed on the first syllable, with a'bility, stressed on the second. A stressed syllable is relatively loud, long in duration, said clearly and distinctly, and made noticeable by the pitch of the voice.
Longer words may have one or more secondary stresses coming before the main stress. These are marked with / , / as in a,bbrevi'ation and ,agri'cultural. They feel like beats in a rhythm leading up to the main stress.
Weak stresses coming after the main stress in a word can sometimes be heard, but they are not shown in this dictionary.
When two words are put together in a phrase, the main stress in the first word may shift to the place of the secondary stress to avoid two stressed syllables clashing right next to each other e.g. ,after'noon has the main stress on noon, but in the phrase ,afternoon 'tea the stress on noon has gone; and in ,well 'known, the main stress is on known, but in the phrase ,well-known 'actor the stress on known has gone.* |
(Note that I haven't attempted to type IPA in the above quote, and that the secondary stress symbol isn't in fact a comma; also, there is information on two-part, or phrasal, verbs, and idioms, in the Oxford dictionary, and Swan's PEU (see the footnote below, at the end of this post)).
For "greater detail" (i.e. not that there are rules that will always compensate for students simply looking up and learning rote facts from a dictionary) Google Book Search allows generous previews of some relevant guides - you could for example take a look at especially pages 41-46 of the following book:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=wE5XyoCYpbsC&printsec=frontcover#PPA41,M1
Or how about these:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=u29ff2oIPk8C&printsec=frontcover
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=twC-H4a8VcYC&printsec=frontcover
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=rDp7SlTbwHEC&printsec=frontcover
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=FOeJNUN3pmgC&printsec=frontcover
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4chvbyvXDVIC&printsec=frontcover#PPA179,M1
I think it is actually a bit worrying (what with you intending to be a teacher) that you seem to lack the resources and/or initiative to answer such basic questions yourself. Please invest more time in reading whatever books you might have (and/or buy a few more), so that you gain a better working vocabulary with which to at the least search the internet.
*Swan in his PEU has the following examples/notation: afterNOON > It's time for my AFternoon SLEEP; JapanESE > JApanese COOking; nineTEEN > The year NINEteen TWENty. Taking the first example, and adding caps to the "remaining" keyword/syllable 'time' thus: It's TIME for my AFternoon SLEEP, the regular spacing/beat of the stressed syllables is pretty obvious (and you can begin to tap out a steady metronome-like beat and then time your reading of 'It's' to fall between two such beats/come before a beat and the 'TIME' to fall on the beat, after which you're away! But I have to say that I'm not a great fan of "Jazz Chants" and the like (not everything can be reduced to such "poetry in rhythm" LOL)).
Last edited by fluffyhamster on Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Madame J
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 239
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Never Ceased To Be Amazed wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
Also
stoodent vs shudent
twosday vs chewsday
As well as:
tube vs chube
neanderthal vs neandertal
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NCTBA |
See, I'd have your first example as "toob" versus "tube". 
Sam, in response to your previous question, just speak whichever form of English comes naturally. (Well, within reason-I'd try not to drop the aitches or allow any compex idioms to appear *too* often!) I've yet to come across any classroom texts containing Americanisms in my (limited) experience, but if that did occur then I'd simply explain the regional difference to my students. Trying to teach US English as a UK speaker is a recipe for disaster-I know I'd only sound awkward and clumsy if I tried to, and certainly not the "natural" speaker students want!
By the way, when you actually start your CELTA you should get tonnes useful practice with stress patterns. It worked wonders for several people on my course who'd originally allowed to stress to cause them, well, stress.  |
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