|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
hrvatski
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 270
|
 Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:11 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| That's sounds like an excellent system at Bell up there. Are teachers paid well to conduct those workshops? From my experience a good workshop requires an enormous amount of prep. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Tracer
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 65
Location: Warszawa, PL
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike_2007 wrote: |
Teaching English abroad is frequently romanticised so it's no surpirse that a lot of people come out the other end feeling disappointed. . . .
Teaching abroad falls into a similar category. I find that those teachers who I've met who had some other reason to move abroad, and for whom teaching was just a logical career change, tend to adapt better, have lower expectations both from the job and the country, and ultimately learn take the rough with the smooth. |
Yep. Like it or not, life is difficult. Cowboy up and quit yer bitch'n. 
A lot of Europeans think that California was designed by God as a paradise (especially Poles and Irish folks). Well, I was born and raised there and despite the state's obvious natural beauty I don't know what they mean. Having low expectations is a good strategy when coming to a new country to do TEFL. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scottie1113
Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 375
Location: Gdansk
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hrvatski wrote: |
| That's sounds like an excellent system at Bell up there. Are teachers paid well to conduct those workshops? From my experience a good workshop requires an enormous amount of prep. |
No, they're not paid at all. Teachers who conduct them volunteer to do so and we see is it as a meaningful contribution to our peers. Believe me, it's good for everyone and it's one of the many reasons that morale is high and camaraderie among teachers great. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Two years as a basic teacher. Stay in the same school so you end up as the most experienced native speaker. Show willing, do unpaid training sessions for new teachers, offer to organise the tests or something.
Third year take on a paid reponsibility post.
Get the DELTA
Fourth year move into an ADOS position at a reputable (low paying) school (IH/Bell)
Fifth year be willing to move (if necessary) to take on a DoS position.
Do lots of networking at conferences.
Become a CELTA trainer.
Sixth / Seventh year. DoS during the school year, two CELTA courses each summer. Write articles for journals and do training at IATEFL and other conferences. More networking.
Become a DELTA trainer.
Eighth year. Start writing books. Stop teaching. Spend half your time at home writing, the other half doing CELTA/DELTA courses all over the world. |
wow. you gotta REEEEEEEEALLY like ESL, and Poland, to spend 8 years of your life like THAT. for someone who comes to Poland and absolutely falls in love with the profession, and the country, and decides to make that kind of career decision, all the power to ya'!
one question........how many people, after living in Poland for 4 years, can speak fluent Polish? If you are an ADOS, and most certainly a DOS, it goes without saying that you would need to be fluent in Polish. not to mention, when you mention "be willing to move", does that mean out of the country? because if it does, you're starting from square one with a new language, which again, you will need to be fluent in. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the new guy
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 127
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| simon_porter00 wrote: |
If you have your own business, which is fantastically easy to set up,.... |
you are joking right?? it isn't like that for a single non married non EU citizen. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
anospi
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 152
Location: Perth, Western Australia
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| the new guy wrote: |
| simon_porter00 wrote: |
If you have your own business, which is fantastically easy to set up,.... |
you are joking right?? it isn't like that for a single non married non EU citizen. |
My thoughts exactly. I'm a non married EU citizen and I hit brick wall after brick wall before giving up. I'm going to try again from scratch when I return though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sgt Bilko
Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 136
Location: POLAND
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| If you are an ADOS, and most certainly a DOS, it goes without saying that you would need to be fluent in Polish |
Certainly at IH there was no need to speak Polish. I know in Spain/Italy it's different but the less popular the location, the less fussy schools are. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
simon_porter00
Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 505
Location: Warsaw, Poland
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| the new guy wrote: |
| simon_porter00 wrote: |
If you have your own business, which is fantastically easy to set up,.... |
you are joking right?? it isn't like that for a single non married non EU citizen. |
Ok, Ok, I momentarily forgot about my American/other non-British native cousins.  I didn't mention you guys because the OP was British - or at least we're led to believe that.
I'm quite happy to conceed that for you guys, it isn't such a walk in the park. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hrvatski
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 270
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sgt Bilko wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you are an ADOS, and most certainly a DOS, it goes without saying that you would need to be fluent in Polish |
Certainly at IH there was no need to speak Polish. I know in Spain/Italy it's different but the less popular the location, the less fussy schools are. |
If you wanted to be quite an independent and versatile DOS, I'd say speaking the local tongue would be a smart move. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
If you wanted to be quite an independent and versatile DOS, I'd say speaking the local tongue would be a smart move. |
i simply don't understand how one could be a DOS at a school, and not speak the language of the land fluently.
what would you do if a student, absolute beginner, wanted to talk to you about a problem he/she is having? it sure as heck isn't going to be in English. not to mention, even if the student was intermediate, if he/she has a complaint/concern/issue with something, nobody wants to struggle to explain themselves in anything but their native tongue, and in my opinion, you shouldn't have to.
on top of that, how would you look for work for the school? if you wanted to book a big contract with a company, you're not going to walk into the company and talk to people there in English. this goes without saying.
regarding that "8 year plan", unless you want to be running a school with a translator at your side day in, day out, if you want to be an independent DOS, handling business at your school as you see fit, you need to speak the local language, and speak it well. how many of you, after 3-4 years of living here (excluding hrvatski who claims to speak the language quite well) were fluent in Polish? how many of you who have been here even longer, speak even intermediate Polish? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
richard_1-1
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 15
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here here Dynow!
This 8 year plan is pure fantasy, how many efl teachers go on to the delta or DOS position and / or start writing their own books?? The percentage must be minuscule. I'm not saying the opportunity doesn't exist, it does, but the amount of time and effort required just don't make it a viable option for 99.999% of the teaching community.
As for starting a business being easy... Again Harry Potter territory. I came very close to buying a school. I can tell you negotiating through a translator isn't a comforting situation. Business is still very under the table in Poland. I was lucky to have a very good lawyer (private student) who helped me for free (normal charge 500zlt / hour, in Warsaw average is 1000+). Even with all this help I still found the prospect daunting. The, bureaucracy, high taxes, and language barrier were all highly significant. Not to mention profits. Schools don't make much if any profit.
As for being a DOS I totally agree with Dynow, if I had bought the school how was I going to market and advertise or deal with problems when I couldn't communicate effectively
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sgt Bilko
Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 136
Location: POLAND
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
i simply don't understand how one could be a DOS at a school, and not speak the language of the land fluently.
what would you do if a student, absolute beginner, wanted to talk to you about a problem he/she is having? it sure as heck isn't going to be in English. not to mention, even if the student was intermediate, if he/she has a complaint/concern/issue with something, nobody wants to struggle to explain themselves in anything but their native tongue, and in my opinion, you shouldn't have to.
on top of that, how would you look for work for the school? if you wanted to book a big contract with a company, you're not going to walk into the company and talk to people there in English. this goes without saying. |
OK, We've obviously had different experiences here. I've always been in schools where the DoS deals with the teachers - training, input, observations etc and a local owner/director deals with marketing and the business side of things. The DoS is not encouraged to get (actively discouraged from getting) involved in the business side. Any students go straight to reception/the director and their problems are communicated to the DoS through them.
As for the career path, OK it was a bit outlandish. So here are some easier options. (British centred I know)
Stop at the CELTA - stay as a teacher. As you get more experience, you'll be able to pick and choose better jobs.
DELTA - move up into management (ADoS/DoS) or teacher training or teach for someone like the British Council and earn good money.
MA - work at a university. Get reasonable money and a pension. Maybe go on to get a PhD and even better money.
PGCE - get a job in an international school or return to Britain.
Yes, most of the progression demands extra qualifications but that's true in the 'real world' too.
I got my CELTA 17 years ago. There's no way I could have stayed in the business (financially or mentally) without a career progression of some sort. Now I'm doing what I want to do and earning a reasonable amount with still more ambition on the horizon.
ELT can be a good life, honest. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
MA - work at a university. Get reasonable money and a pension. Maybe go on to get a PhD and even better money. |
what does a teacher at a university in Poland earn? someone had written on this forum about a month ago about a university professor, PhD in Microbiology, i believe they said this person was around 40, and her monthly salary was under 3000 a month. i don't know anyone teaching at a university personally, but i certainly have students that do, and they always say how poorly they are paid.
also, what kind of pension does poland offer to a university teacher?
| Quote: |
| Yes, most of the progression demands extra qualifications but that's true in the 'real world' too. |
there's a lot of truth to that, but to be honest, getting your run of the mill bachelor's degree and a little ambition is all it takes to get yourself a good corporate job. if you work hard your first 5 years and get a few promotions, there's no reason why in 10 years you can't be making far more than what a teacher earns.
i'm not one for corporate/big business careers (been there, done that) and will probably stay in classroom teaching and retire doing the same, but sticking with ESL, in Poland of all places, just doesn't seem like a decision many people are willing to make. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
richard_1-1
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 15
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Being an EFL teacher you'll more than likely always be a foreigner, unless you want to make pitiful money in the UK.
As far as I can see there really aren't many advantages to being an EFL teacher. Ok, so you can travel and see this wonderful world (isn't that what holidays are for?) but typically you�re a commodity exploited by your employer.
I know there are good EFL teachers out there but the majority of teachers I met wished they weren't teaching. Generally they were stuck doing what they were doing. I also like to feel respected in the job I do. I didn't get this from EFL. Most Polish natives I met didn't view my job as a career.
It's such a relief to be back and working in the UK. I can walk into a shop/pub/bank etc and COMMUNICATE FLUENTLY. How great that feels. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scottie1113
Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 375
Location: Gdansk
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Is being a foreigner such a bad thing? I could have stayed in the US but then I wouldn't have experienced living in Poland, and I love it here.
We had a teacher from Oz at my school last year, and her mantra was the being a commodity thing. She wanted Australian wages while working in Poland. Sorry, but that's simply not reality. Most of us entered this profession with eyes wide open and accept a lower income for the advantages/benefits that working as a teacher in a different country provide. Poland's obviously not for everybody, but once you accept its peculiarities it's a wonderful place to be. I'm staying here.
Teachers at my school don't feel that they're stuck in this job. They treat this position professionally and as a consequence they're respected by their students who tell us that we're delivering real value for the money they pay. Those without this attitude, and they're few and far between, usually leave within a short time. I might add that teacher turnover at my school is minimal, which speaks volumes about job satisfaction and mutual respect between students and teachers, and between teachers and the administration and owner.
I can't communicate fluently in Polish yet, but I'm getting better every day. As we all know, it's not an easy language to learn, but almost everyone I come into contact with is more than understanding and tolerant of my mistakes, and they frequently give me a mini lesson about what I said incorrectly and how to say it properly. It's one of the many things that make Poland special for me. Your comment makes me wonder how much effort you put into learning the language.
My ecperience is quite different from yours. I'm happy to be here and you're happy to be back in the UK. It looks like we're both in the right place for us. Enough said. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
