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Dragonlady
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 720
Location: Chillinfernow, Canada
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 Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:17 am Post subject: Grades for English portion not submitted to SEP |
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Last edited by Dragonlady on Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MikeySaid
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 509
Location: Torreon, Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:21 am Post subject: Re: Grades for English portion not submitted to SEP |
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| Dragonlady wrote: |
And one last question to those of you with kids in school here - parents continue to throw huge amounts of (tuition) money to private schools instead of lobbying the govt to improve public schools?
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Ha, sometimes I suggest to people that I would have my kids in public school if I raised them here. I am always promptly told tales of 3x3 cells, errr classrooms with 70+ children sitting on the floor in excrement. At the speed government seems to move in this country, you can either demand that the state step it up and fight for the next 15 years, or you can dump a thousand to ten thousand pesos a month into your child's education. |
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MELEE
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2583
Location: The Mexican Hinterland
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| My kids are only in pre-escolar. But we are thinking public school for primary. The only real draw back, in my area at least, is time lost to strikes. The quality of urban public schools is good. It's the rural ones, seen as undesireable positions by the teachers, that are classic examples of Mexican schools. And once you hit secundary, then the public tecnicas are considered better and the private schools are populated by kids who were kicked out of the tecnica, then the general, so their only option is private. The same at the high schools. COBAO and CONALEP are considered the top high schools in my town. |
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TheLongWayHome
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: San Luis Piojosi
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:20 am Post subject: Re: Grades for English portion not submitted to SEP |
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| Dragonlady wrote: |
Grades for the English portion of the school program not being submitted to SEP - Is this a common occurrence in private Bilingual schools in Mexico? What about public K-12 (if English is taught)? University English courses? Where you teach?
How does one motivate SS who straight out tell you that "English doesn't count"  ? How does a teacher motivate one's self to get up each morning and teach from 7am to 3pm classes which are in reality required electives?
What body (if any) sets minimum guidelines for the English program in schools claiming to be bilingual? What body defines what makes a school 100% bilingual?
What are your experiences and thoughts please? It's time for me to decide if I will stay for another 1 year contract.
And one last question to those of you with kids in school here - Why do parents continue to throw huge amounts of (tuition) money to private schools instead of lobbying the govt to improve public schools?
Regards,
Dragonlady |
Ahh, the very questions I ask myself on a daily basis! As I understand it, all private schools operate outside of the SEP, so there is no submission of grades or anything. They're just not part of it. In fact, if you want to teach in a SEP school but didn't go to one, you have to get your qualifications validated by the SEP before they'll give you a job.
SEP schools allow a maximum of 80% English 20% Spanish in bilingual schools but these are few and far between. Most 'bilingual schools' aren't really that bilingual. Here, bilingual seems to mean that yes they have English lessons.
I teach in a bicultural prepa where the students take half their subjects in English. This actually works as to get in they have to be already bilingual. It's strange to see them switch between their little Mexican/American personalities - the American ones light years more mature strangely enough.
I have noticed that English is usually 100% exam whereas other subjects are only maybe 60% exam and include participation, projects, homework and presentations in the final grade. The 100% exam thing seems like an open invitation to do nothing all semester then try to blag the exam by studying the night before. |
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Milenka
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 113
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Grades for English portion not submitted to SEP |
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| TheLongWayHome wrote: |
I teach in a bicultural prepa where the students take half their subjects in English. This actually works as to get in they have to be already bilingual. It's strange to see them switch between their little Mexican/American personalities - the American ones light years more mature strangely enough.
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Interesting. I taught at a bicultural prepa myself ten years ago in Mexico City, and my experience was the complete opposite: when using English (I wouldn't go as far as saying "American personalities"), 'bicultural' students adopted more and more puerile attitudes in general. |
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dixie
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 644
Location: D.F
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: Grades for English portion not submitted to SEP |
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| TheLongWayHome wrote: |
1. Ahh, the very questions I ask myself on a daily basis! As I understand it, all private schools operate outside of the SEP, so there is no submission of grades or anything.
2. I have noticed that English is usually 100% exam whereas other subjects are only maybe 60% exam and include participation, projects, homework and presentations in the final grade. The 100% exam thing seems like an open invitation to do nothing all semester then try to blag the exam by studying the night before.
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1. What? Every school I have worked for has SEP - Mexican students need the credential. My current school has a SEP stream, and a UNAM (for prepa)stream; of course non-Mexican students do not have to partake in that stream if they are not going to continue their studies here, but as far as I know every school - including bilingual - must have SEP (or perhaps parents recognize the need for their kids to have that credential and so bilingual schools ensure that they have the proper SEP programs to ensure that they have students!).
2. Interesting, I have never taught (or seen!) such an English course. But then as we all know, their are "bilingual" schools all over the spectrum! |
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geaaronson
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 948
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:15 am Post subject: an answer to a simple question. |
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| The easiest question to answer was the last one, Dixie, and I am surprised that you should ask it. Simply stated, wealthier parents know quite well that by stifling/stiffing public education, they are giving a lifetime advantage to their darlings over the offspring of the less economically well-off. That�s the case worldwide. Just talk to the parents of children in the USA attending private school. I should know. I spent my first 9 years in a private school, stateside. |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 720
Location: Chillinfernow, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:54 am Post subject: |
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deleted
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Last edited by Dragonlady on Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Samantha
Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2038
Location: Mexican Riviera
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Dragonlady wrote:
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| infact we have 2 report cards, one for the Spanish courses and another for the English. I'm told by the director of English this is common. |
This is exactly how it seemed to be at the bilingual private school I taught at here in Mazatlan, though I admit I don't know what went on behind the scenes in the admin office, nor did I want to. That said, one of the classes I taught was Science to grade 6 and I can't imagine it being left out of submission on their overall marks. Interesting topic. |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 720
Location: Chillinfernow, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: |
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deleted
out of date
Last edited by Dragonlady on Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dixie
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 644
Location: D.F
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry, I didn't mean to sound as though my school submits English grades to SEP. I don't know if they do or not. I only meant that every school I have worked for has had some SEP components to their program (math, science and history/social studies being the ones that I am aware of for a fact). |
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TheLongWayHome
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: San Luis Piojosi
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Grades for English portion not submitted to SEP |
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| Dragonlady wrote: |
Once again I ask why parents (who themselves have gone through the education system) are (sorry but) sucked in to believing private schooling is better.
She also tells me that recently the gov't of Veracruz passed a law stating that SS can't be failed nor can they be (any longer) kicked out of a school. She tells me that our school (being a new school) is full of rejects - SS who've been previously kicked out of all other schools and 'new' schools are (often) their last chance. |
Mexican society is still heavily governed by social class, especially in the smaller cities and schooling is a major part of that, unfortunately. I work in a SEP uni where the students pay $2500 a semester and a fresa uni/prepa where they pay up to $6000 a month. As far as I can see there isn't a great deal of difference in facilities or quality of teaching and even class size, just that gaping divide between rich/poor, white skin/dark skin etc. Which would I send my kid to? Difficult choice and one I'm not looking forward to making as it seems to affect their entire lives.
SLP is incredibly elitist. The ones that have all the management jobs in industrial zone companies went to the Tec de Monterrey funnily enough. These places open doors, as they do in all countries, it just seems a little more unevenly balanced here. |
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dixie
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 644
Location: D.F
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:06 am Post subject: Re: Grades for English portion not submitted to SEP |
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| TheLongWayHome wrote: |
| Dragonlady wrote: |
Once again I ask why parents (who themselves have gone through the education system) are (sorry but) sucked in to believing private schooling is better.
She also tells me that recently the gov't of Veracruz passed a law stating that SS can't be failed nor can they be (any longer) kicked out of a school. She tells me that our school (being a new school) is full of rejects - SS who've been previously kicked out of all other schools and 'new' schools are (often) their last chance. |
Mexican society is still heavily governed by social class, especially in the smaller cities and schooling is a major part of that, unfortunately. I work in a SEP uni where the students pay $2500 a semester and a fresa uni/prepa where they pay up to $6000 a month. As far as I can see there isn't a great deal of difference in facilities or quality of teaching and even class size, just that gaping divide between rich/poor, white skin/dark skin etc. Which would I send my kid to? Difficult choice and one I'm not looking forward to making as it seems to affect their entire lives.
SLP is incredibly elitist. The ones that have all the management jobs in industrial zone companies went to the Tec de Monterrey funnily enough. These places open doors, as they do in all countries, it just seems a little more unevenly balanced here. |
I've heard that that is true here as well. Apparently Ibero is "the place to go" while UNAM (despite having a strong international rep) is not. |
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Samantha
Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2038
Location: Mexican Riviera
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| Hmmmm.... UNAM in Mazatlan has a very solid reputation. |
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