Job Discussion Forums

[Peter Wales]

Hi all -

I'm thinking about applying for one of the two NET schemes but have a question about high NET turn overrates.

At:

http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr05-06/english/panels/ed/papers/ed1024cb2-109-1e.pdf

It refers to turnover rates ("attrition rates") of around 50% for both PNETs and SNETs. The government document is a few years old now, but does anyone know why so many NETs left the two schemes? Are turnover rates still so high? Why? What causes such high numbers of NETs to not resign? Are conditions/Is HK really that bad?

Thanks!

[RiverMystic]

I believe that the attrition rates are down to about 25% or so now. The EDB introduced a retention incentive - basically a payment of an extra 5% of the base salary each month if you sign on for a second contract, and 10% for the third contract.

Why the high turnover rates? Finances are a big part of it, believe it or not. At the high point, the living allowance had gone down from HK$13000 a month to 10500 (I think), and exchange rates for some countries was quite unfavourable. Many NETs have families and are professionals, unlike many ESL teachers elsewhere in Asia and the world. This means they don't want a backpacker lifestyle, and usually aren't here for the chicks (or guys). Think international school fees for the kiddies, and suddenly you look real poor. Some mainland China FTs may boast about saving US$1000 a month, but that is peanuts in a developed economy.

The education system creates major issues for many. For secondary NETs, many schools are high pressure, and very exam focused. There may be little or no prospect of any creative input into classes. This can make teacher a rather unhappy camper in some cases. Many primary NETs have the opposite problem, from my experience - the sheer boredom of having little or nothing to do.

Overall, in HK working conditions and management styles tend towards the Dickensian. The boss is usually the BOSS here, and you kowtow, or else! There is a real hierarchy of power in HK, something that may not be readily apparent to newcomers and outsiders. Most teachers are passive and intimidated by their superiors. If the boss says we have a six hour meeting on Friday night (or even during the holidays), you happily attend with the rest of the staff. Unions are feeble.

HK is also not as easy to live in as some might expect. It is a very busy and crowded place. While there are nature escapes here, they don't tend to be as pristine as those you'd find in many NETs' home countries. Apartments are very expensive, and tend to be REALLY small. This can create a bit of a problem for many Westerners used to more space and their own home.

We should not forget, however, that many NETs are happy, and like their schools. Most really like the kids and appreciate their hard work and respectfullness - though I must warn there are horror students, classes, and schools in HK, just like anywhere. Students in lower banding schools can be a real challenge. I know of some NETS who have dream jobs, and love going to work. For some reason they don�t tend to write about it on web sites, though!

The exchange rates for some countries are now really favourable. Australian NETs at the top of the pay scale, for example, are probably earning at least three times as much in Oz dollars as they would back home, tax taken into account.

With the world's economy in a tailspin, you could do worse than be a NET in HK. A lot worse.

RM

[Marcoregano]

RM's summary is very good - not much to add. Something my missus (she's been a secondary NET since 1999) brought home the other day was a commorative leaflet for the 10th anniversary of the NET programme, with mugshots of those NETs who've managed to stick around for the full ten years. What struck me was how many are still here - 68 out of 280 - which ain't bad really given that many expats change location at the drop of a hat. As RM suggests, NET went a bit wobbly for a couple of years in the aftermath of SARS and one or two bad decisions by the EdB, but seems to have got its house in order again. Neither the NET prog nor HK are perfect, but there are far worse places/job situations to be in right now.

[Peter Wales]

Thanks a lot for the detailed reply River. That has helped. One thing that does bother me about the HK governmental document I linked to is that they mention NETs being made to sit through meetings in Chinese (I presume Cantonese?). They say this is 'fair' as Chinese teachers need to attend the meetings! But Chinese teachers can understand Chinese! Isn't that a bit odd, if not absolutely crazy? Do all NETs have to attend meetings in Chinese? is it possible to have it written in your contract that you don't have to endure meetings you cannot understand? Is it possible to do an activity instead?

Also, what about the story below? Is this common?

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=3732

[Marcoregano]

[Peter Wales]

[Marcoregano]

Talk to your predecessor! That way you'll also find out whether or not the school sucks in any other areas. If/when you reach the interview stage you will be in a position to ask the school for the existing NET's contact details. Another way is to try and get NET contact details via the dedicated NET forums - details elsewhere on this forum.

[Peter Wales]

There is no predecessor. This coming academic year (09/10) will be the first time the school has had funding for NETs. Is this the sort of question I can just come out and ask, perhaps in the interview? Here in China there are a million and one crazzzzzy things for sure, but nobody would ever dream of making anyone sit through a meeting in a lingo they could not understand. I must say, it does seem a little bit backward. I thought HK was meant to be more advanced and progressive than China.....?

[Marcoregano]

I can't see why it would do any harm to ask, though I guess it might suggest you're a lefty liberal Gweilo troublemaker. But, IMHO opinion you're making much ado about nothing. Such meetings probably won't take place that often - perhaps best to see them as a small price to pay for experiencing the joys of HK and NET!

[Peter Wales]

Thanks again for the reply. It's good to hear from actual NETs in HK. I have to ask though, if these Chinese meetings are no big deal then why were they discussed by Hong Kong's government? On another forum a NET claims she has to sit through a 3 or 4 hour meeting in Chinese every Friday night...... Sorry, I'm no trouble maker, but I have better things to do with my life!

What's a 'gweilo'?

[anninhk]

What kind of school are you going to? I find it strange that the school has only just received funding for a NET. The NET scheme has been in existence in secondary for over 10 years now and in primary for nearly 7. All government and aided schools were eligible for funding for a NET.
I have only attended the occasional meeting in Cantonese in my 7 years here. In one school I was asked to attend the first staff meeting of the year and that was all. In my present school I have never attended a meeting in Cantonese.
However some people do have to attend - it's the luck of the draw I'm afraid which is the same for a lot of other things like the length of the holidays and what time you can leave in the afternoon etc.

[Peter Wales]

Thanks for the reply. Ive been set up with an interview at a high school. They said this will be the first time they have secured funding for NETs. They emailed me and asked to come to Hk the next day. From Shanghai, in mid-term, yeah, right......that's really going to happen.

I am not a fan of the luck of the draw, or of crap shoots. Now I am more worried! What's this about length of holidays? I thought it was 2 months off in summer, a few weeks off at Xmas and New Year, a week off at Easter, and all the Chinese holidays and odd old British 'bank' holidays? Surely holidays dont change froms school to school? Also I thought schools finished at 4 in HK. Can't all teachers leave at 4pm?

[robot_kid]

It sounds like the school has secured private funding to hire a NET. Some (many?) schools get private funding (ie from donations etc) to hire another English teacher and advertise for extra "NETs" (as in Native English speaking Teachers) in addition to the NET provided by the government's NET scheme. These extra NETs may not be under the same contract as official NETs, and may not get the same allowances in their pay structure. That said, I know of some "extra" NETs whose school gives them the same deal as official NETs.

If I was you I'd ask the school if this position it is part of the official NET scheme.

[Marcoregano]

[Peter Wales]

Thanks Robot. I applied to the education department of the HK government and they passed me on to the school that contacted me. Does that mean it is or isn't the official NET scheme?

Do you have to spend all of the housing allowance or can you only spend some of it on rent and pocket the difference? Does it go direct to the landlord from the government or does it get paid into your account? The school is in Tuen Munn. How much is a semi-decent pad there? Thanks ^^