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daemonic · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 25

Thank you for clarifying my point.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:56 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I could see where you were coming from and appreciate your viewpoint, Daemonic. Believe it or not, I've actually had arguments (or rather, been taken to task) for eventually tiring sometimes of really too rarefied grammar discussions, for raising questions of relevance and practical application.

Chancellor

Chancellor · Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:33 pm Post subject:

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

By the way, daemonic, just to clarify - I never 'teach' grammar.
But occasions arise where students need to see the patterns as a part of their analysis of discourse. I particularly like COBUILD for collocations, anyway - not grammar-

However, you're right that my students don't practice everyday conversation.

That's because I teach in a university setting where my learners all have B2+/C1 level English minimum anyway, and our classes focus on English for their specific fields of study, including analysis of typical texts, discreet lexis, and common collocations, along with discourse patterns applicable in their fields.

In other words, specialized English for higher-level speakers.

daemonic · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 25

Well do you still practice speaking skills with them? for their specialised fields of English?

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Discourse structure and standard signalling language for formal and academic presentations, yes. Ad hoc speaking skills, no, not even in their fields. They're not admitted to the university without competent language skills.

Do you happen to know any Dutch people? I teach in the Netherlands - that might give you a clue why they need/want more knowledge of structure. They communicate with ease, but not with formality or professional skill!!

My point is really just that all teaching contexts aren't created equal.

Of course, I sometimes work with different kinds of learners. We have, for example, one summer course that is really meant to activate the English that the students already have. Grammar and structure verboten unless specifically requested for (discrete points needed).

I'm no fan of teaching grammar out of context.

daemonic · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 25

So isn't what you do, an explanation of how to speak English rather than to actually speak it? I may be completely misunderstanding what it is that you're doing here, but it seems to me that you are teaching the theories of language acquisition and the various forms of manipulating it rather than the actuall usage.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Not theories of language acquisition, but how to use the language in professional and academic situations, yes. It is indeed manipulation - which is exactly what some students need to know how to do.

Maybe I should be clear that it is not I who determine what is needed and wanted, but students and faculty working together to decide what needs to be taught.

The skills associated with speaking in formal situations are needed by many learners at some point, by the way. I've had many high-level businesspeople who needed to decipher explicitly the ways both spoken and unspoken communication works in English.