Job Discussion Forums

[Amercan Ambler]

Hi guys,

So in two months I'll be graduating from a very good university, and I am interested in teaching Engish overseas in a Spanish-speaking country for a year (possibly two) when I get out to become fluent in Spanish and get to experience a new culture.

I realize that this forum is primarily for people who are making a living out of TEFL, and I want to make it clear before I post my questions that that is not what I'm out to do. While I certainly want to do a good job as a teacher, as I enjoy teaching (I have tutored elementary/middle school aged children and been a camp counselor before) and take great pride in doing whatever job I am doing well, I am using teaching English abroad as an opportunity to become bilingual and do something different out of college. I am a political science major and being bilingual is a bonus for many different careers I might get into in the future. This seems to be by far the most active TEFL site on the web, however, so even though I might be a bit of a misfit from many of you it seemed like the best place to post these questions. So here I go:

1.) Certification: I've read alot about certification on this board, and the consensus is that the only certifications worthwhile are for the most part the "Big 3" (CELTA, Trinity, SIT), and that all the online/weekend ones are as worthless as the paper they're printed on. I understand this sentiment for somebody looking to make a career out of TEFL, but for somebody like me who is looking at this as a 1 year (2 max) transitional stint, is it really worth the extra 2k it would cost me? I am looking at i-i which has an online component combined with a weekend course for certification (anywhere of 40-100 hours online depending on the degree of certification). Is this suitable for me, or still worthless? Will employers really know the difference between the two?

2.) Placement institutions: Most people here seem to think placement institutions are not worth it. However, considering I found a program like TEFL Job Placement that offers a certification course and guaranteed job placement for under $1000, for my purposes this seems better than paying $2000 for CELTA. Also, I am a bit uneasy about going to Argentina/Peru (my top choices at this point) without a job. What are your feelings on these placement institutions (Language Corps would be another one)?

3.) When to get a job? I have read that for Argentina especially, it is best to just go down there and try to get a job while there in person. Is this viable for somebody with my background (politicial science degree, some tutoring/ kid counseling experience, and some form of certification)? I realize this is very country specific, so I will cross-post this on the Argentina/Peru board.

Thanks in advance for any replies and I'm really excited about this opportunity.

[spiral78]

The important distinction between the on-line and on-site courses is the actual supervised teaching practice with real students. Most reputable employers consider this to be key. Yes, they do know the difference.

As for recruiting agencies and getting a job lined up before you go, along with the certification question, let me offer a different idea:

There are lots of very good reasons to take a certification course in the country where you want to start working, if at all possible.

Training in-country offers you a great chance to get your feet wet in the country/culture while you still have a support system � they usually arrange for your housing during the course, airport pickup, and local orientation. Your practice teaching students will really be representative of those you�ll be working with when you start. You can be sure that your certification will be recognized by local employers, and a training centre can give you invaluable contacts and advice regarding reputable local employers.

So, instead of seeking a job from abroad (lots of risks in that - how do you know the employer is reputable??), why not try to find a cert course in country, and do your job search at the end of your course...this approach has worked for many, many newbies.

[denise]

If you know in advance that this will not be a career for you (although you could discover that you love it and change your mind!) and just want to do it for a year or so, you could skip the certification, but realize that it does limit your chances. Good schools would know the difference (I hope...) between a reputable certificate and one that came out of a diploma mill, though, so if you do get one, I would recommend investing in something a bit more in-depth than the on-line ones... although you don't need to limit yourself to CELTA/Trinity/SIT. Although I normally recommend getting certified, in your case, as long as you are committed to the job while you're there (so that you're making it worth your students' time and money), you might be OK without a certificate.

Another thing to consider, though, is your goal of becoming bilingual. How good is your Spanish now? If you've already studied it and just want to be in an environment where you can actually use it, then I think you can achieve your goal. You've got to be aware, though, that for roughly 40 hours per week you will be paid to speak English. Peru was a bit different for me than anywhere else I've been, and in a good way--outside of class, I spoke Spanish a lot of the time, in all sorts of settings, about all sorts of topics, and watched Spanish TV, read newspapers, etc. (Didn't get fluent, but could do just about anything.) In other countries, it was harder--there are more people eager to befriend you just to practice English, larger teacher communities that hang out together and speak English, and just more access to English--and studying the language was something that you would have to find time to force yourself to do, and a year isn't really that long if you're starting from zero. Anyway, my point is that just living there won't necessarily make you fluent. It depends on who you're surrounded by, how you spend your time, and what level you're at when you go.

d

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[naturegirl321]

Fluency is hard, espcially if you teach English. I know a good uni In Peru to work at I'll PM you the details.

DOn't use English teaching to do it, It doesn't work, Try just going and studying. I remember there were places in China that were only 1600 for a year, and that's USD. It just doesn't work. YOur life will be in English. People will speak better English than you speak Spanish and you'll be there so that they can pracitse their English, not you practise your SPanish.

I've been living in Spanish countries for 5 years, speak Spanish to my husband, have been speaking Spanish since I was 12, I'm 26. I'm not fluent, nor will I ever be. My life, most of it, is in English, I work with Koreans and have to speak English, since they don't speak Spanish. ONly at home and on the street do I use Spaniahs.

1.) Should be 120 hours with 6 teaching pratise hours. There rae plenty of good ones out there. ONline certs aren't worth much. Good employers know the difference. But there are places, like Peru, that just need native speaker who are willing to work spilt shifts for 10 bucks an hour.

2.) I know that one, TEFL job placement, they place you in their own school. YOu uslaly get about 500 usd a month.

3.) Language institutes hire year round, but not over major holidays.
Best to go in person.

I ,know a lot about Peru, if you're interested, I'll gladly point you in the right direction and help you find a job, no need to pay either like the TEFL job placements. I'm just happy to help.

try also www.expatperu.com and www.livinginperu.com

[Glenski]

[grumbles]

I have a very similar situation to the OP, I am wanting to learn some spanish (not necessarily become 'fluent', but enough to be able to be comfortable with the language and hold conversations in spanish) how long would this take on average, maybe 2-3 years?

Also with regards to TEFL certification, I'm interested in getting a certificate though I have a fairly tight budget: I've seen an affordable intensive weekend course advertised locally, that offers 'teaching experience' at least. Is this kind of certificate considered worthwhile by employers?

Lastly, which country in S.America would people recommend for someone with a degree, teaching for the first time, who wants to learn spanish?

[RJmanifesto]

I'm pretty much in this exact same boat too.. minus the needing to learn Spanish part. I know some spanish, I just want a decent place to teach with nothing but a high GPA, bachelor's degree, and basic TEFL course.

[spiral78]

Your GPA will not interest an overseas employer, who will most likely not know what it means in any case.

Basic entry-level TEFL training is 100+ hours on site, including practice teaching on actual students (not peer trainees). On-line and weekend courses don't cut it in most regions.

There are lots of very good reasons to take a course in the country where you want to start working, if at all possible.

Training in-country offers you a great chance to get your feet wet in the country/culture
while you still have a support system � they usually arrange for your housing during the course, airport pickup, and local orientation. Your practice teaching students will really be representative of those you�ll be working with when you start. You can be sure that your certification will be recognized by local employers, and a training centre can give you invaluable contacts and advice regarding reputable local employers.

[Chancellor]

[Justin Trullinger]

I might have mentioned something to this effect before, but DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY ON SHODDY ONLINE QUALS.

Pardon my shouting. And by the way, not all distance quals are shoddy. But many are. And the cheapest, almost certainly. Don't give them the money.

Will an employer know? Maybe. A GOOD employer will know the difference. An exploitative dishonest used car dealer of a school owner may not know, but would hire you anyway without quals. GOod employers will know about quals. Bad employers mostly don't care.

Every once in a while, you could get luck and get a good job with a bad qual. But it isn't common enough to bank on it.

To answer a question:

[spiral78]

Amen. Justin's right on this issue, as always (and sadly, all-too-often).

[Sheikh Abdullah]

Hey there buddy!

I am in the same position as you. I will be graduating in two months with a Bachelors degree in Sociology. If you live in the USA, I would recommend you go with Oxford Seminars which is internationally recognized. You will get 60 hours of classroom training along with doing your own practicum. It is only on Saturdays and Sundays for three weeks. Totally worth the time and the money. This will be enough for you to be certified and find a job in Latin America. Guaranteed.

Hope this helps
www.oxfordseminars.com
is the website you need.

Regards,
Abdullah

[spiral78]

So, Abdullah, you can guarantee jobs with an Oxford cert, though you're still in university yourself?

One key point repeated several times above is : supervised teaching practice with feedback from experienced teacher trainers on real students. Not peer trainees, not without feedback from actual teachers. It really is the key to a decent certification course.

[jonhaloi]

American Ambler:

It takes 5 years of very concerted effort (4 to 5 hours a day) to become fluent in a second language starting from zero. If you want to learn Spanish, do a home-stay in Argentina. This will give you more energy to learn Spanish.

If you don't get a CELTA, you WILL get a crap job. Most ESL jobs for people just out of UNI are pretty crap. You will spend a lot of time adjusting to the new workload, classroom management problems, bad business managers you work for and learning the ropes of living abroad. Most people will want to speak English with you. You could find people who want to do language exchanges with you, but why not just do a home-stay or do a minor in Spanish. The results will be more direct in terms of what you are looking for-to learn Spanish.

At a beginning job at a language school abroad-you are, well-MEAT, in a way, to be chewed on by management and unruly students who don't want to be there (remember you have a fly by night ESL certificate with no experience).

If you want to learn Spanish, then learn Spanish.

12 years in the business (Korea, Laos, Thailand, UAE, Oman)

[jonhaloi]

American Ambler:

Here is a second post, after I had some time to think about my first post. If you don't want to be a teacher, don't go into teaching.

After twelve years in this industry, I've seen all kinds of people come and go and leave behind a mess. Ones who do it because the unemployment rate is very high back home, the American alcoholic who teaches ESL abroad to keep one step ahead of creditors, ex-wives, etc.

People who are not interested in delivering a quality lesson based on researched pedagogy should stay out of the business-please.

The acronym EFL stands for two things, English as a Foreign Language, and Every F@@@ing Loser.

You say you studied political science-interesting. Think about how many politicians went into politics for selfish reason to accomplish something other than serving the public interest. Think about all the politicians who have taken bribes, kickbacks, payouts and freebies in exchange for some sort of power brokerage. This is exactly what you want to do to teaching.

Blagoyevich selling a senate seat vacated by Obama? the former head of Lehman Brothers who made 169 million $ in two years at a company that went broke. They were in it for selfish reasons.

Part 2: You want to learn Spanish to speak to people in the US? Shouldn't people who live in the US speak English?