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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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 Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| if it's not right, you are not going to make it right no matter how you negotiate. |
I disagree with this comment as a blanket statement. I think there are schools out there that will work with you to make things right. The school I'm at right now is far from perfect, but I'm ending my 4th year with them soon (with an agreement to return at a time of my choosing) due to the fact that USUALLY, they try to make things right. It's never going to be 100% to my liking - - I think most all of us would be hard-pressed to find a school like that - - for those that have, a genuine congratulations to you. However, they generally take care of me. I'm having problems with my apartment so they've agreed to move me into a new one upon the next new contract. They've even gone so far as to promise me an apartment either on the first or second floor at the most or a joint with an elevator in it. Now granted, that time has not yet come so . . . we'll see. But my point is, some schools will work with you.
Granted, I was very savvy with current contract negotiations and, quite frankly, the longer I've stayed with my current school (and in China of course) the more I'm able to figure things out. Even the best of schools are probably not going to give you much more than what's been agreed upon in your contract. This may be the OP's first job here in China and at least he can chalk it up to a learning experience. |
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sui jin
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 184
Location: near the yangtze
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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If your contract allows a 30 day notice of termination then there is no problem I guess, and your employer should give you all the docs you want. If it doesn't, why would they give you anything (inc. June salary)? You are breaking the contract, with notice or not.
In this case (no notice allowed) and if you are still determined to quit, I would say nothing and leave after your June paycheck. You can tell them you were called back home for whatever reason.
If the next employer asks about this semester just tell the same story. I think your future employer won't care why you quit, and won't expect a letter of release or recommendation. |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I think your future employer won't care why you quit, and won't expect a letter of release or recommendation. |
That may be the case, especially in schools that don't care whom they hire.
Except, in our city, for example, the SAFEA officials who process the Foreign Expert's Card, do require a Letter of Release and the Recommendation Letter; regardless of the preference of the employer.
Of course, like all things in China, your mileage may vary. |
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Kibbs
Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Another loser who didnt do their homework and cannot honor their contract. I see no mention of specific breach items.. Just a melody of the same horse poo that all the little girly men on this board use as excuses why they cant accept responsibility for lack of due diligence.
There's a sorry lot of you on here lately. |
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suanlatudousi
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 384
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Kibbs wrote: |
Another loser who didnt do their homework and cannot honor their contract. I see no mention of specific breach items.. Just a melody of the same horse poo that all the little girly men on this board use as excuses why they cant accept responsibility for lack of due diligence.
There's a sorry lot of you on here lately. |
Yes, anyone traveling around the world has no excuse for not doing their research beforehand. |
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Babala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| How is your relationship with the school? I realize you are not happy but do you have a civil relationship with someone in your FAO? If you do, I would suggest feeling out a conversation about you leaving. If you and your school are always at odds, maybe you can work out a deal. I'm sure they no more want an unhappy teacher around as much as you don't want to be there. |
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xiao51
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:35 am Post subject: ... |
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| kev7161 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| if it's not right, you are not going to make it right no matter how you negotiate. |
I disagree with this comment as a blanket statement. |
This was not a blanket statement. Read carefully please. It was directed to one particular individual in one particular set of circumstances. Hardly a blanket statement. |
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evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| Anyway, for the OP, if it's not right, you are not going to make it right no matter how you negotiate. There are just too many jobs (still) in China and you need to look carefully and try to find a better one. |
I agree....most of the time the aim of a chinese business is to accomplish their goal and they care little about the machine or the people who do that so the actions they take will often be little more than stop gaps designed to keep you workin just a little longer, blood from the turnip sort of thing...life is too short and you tmein China can be a dark chapter unless you find a situation that you are happy in and to tell the truth .. by the time you negoiciate with the Chinese, you could have found several jobs that would make you happier then you present situation. |
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xiao51
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:17 am Post subject: ... |
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| evaforsure wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Anyway, for the OP, if it's not right, you are not going to make it right no matter how you negotiate. There are just too many jobs (still) in China and you need to look carefully and try to find a better one. |
I agree....most of the time the aim of a chinese business is to accomplish their goal and they care little about the machine or the people who do that so the actions they take will often be little more than stop gaps designed to keep you workin just a little longer, blood from the turnip sort of thing...life is too short and you tmein China can be a dark chapter unless you find a situation that you are happy in and to tell the truth .. by the time you negoiciate with the Chinese, you could have found several jobs that would make you happier then you present situation. |
EvaForSure,
Thanks...that is exactly what I met.
Most contracts here are for one year / 10 months / not long term by any means.
Just think about the time factor : why spend 1-2 months trying to right a situation when the situation is only 10 months long? It's not a lifetime commitment for most, it's short-term.
Thanks again.
Xiao Lin
Last edited by xiao51 on Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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inchinanow
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 102
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:40 am Post subject: |
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See my post:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=68067
Now my understanding is that if you cannot get the release letter, you might have problems getting a job in THAT provience, but this is not absolute.
I think the National Blacklist is if you commit a crime or do something really egregious. |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:20 am Post subject: |
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When you negotiate with your new school, insist on a reasonable, penalty free escape clause. It absolutely can be done, and that is the purpose of the contract addendum - to allow modification of the standard SAFEA contract.
School that tells you it is impossible to modify the SAFEA contract are either misinformed themselves, or misleading you.
Good luck. |
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menso35
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| Kibbs wrote: |
Another loser who didnt do their homework and cannot honor their contract. I see no mention of specific breach items.. Just a melody of the same horse poo that all the little girly men on this board use as excuses why they cant accept responsibility for lack of due diligence.
There's a sorry lot of you on here lately. |
What a response. I feel sorry for your students. |
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evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:27 am Post subject: |
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EvaForSure,
Thanks...that is exactly what I met.
Most contracts here are for one year / 10 months / not long term by any means. |
and remember as well that the addendums may not be considered as part of the contract by Department of Labor mediators...if it gets to court..the judge can simply consider it or not... |
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