Job Discussion Forums

evaforsure · Joined: 26 Jun 2004 Posts: 1217

it is rather common in China to take a seal and have it copied....kind of a business practice...as to the legality of it, the use of a chop, since the former poster knows that this is a "prisonable" criminal offense perhaps they can tell us what the law states and what kind of time and under what circumstance the max can be given.....in the past I have known of chnese people who have used a fake chop and indeed have received a fine but no jail time...

Teatime of Soul · Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 905

What interesting advice.

1. Illegally copy official seal of employer.

2. Forge a government document (Letter of Recommendation is a govt. form).

3. Forge content and Headmasters signature.

Meanwhile, a real copy of the real Letter of recommendation sits in your old local PSB's office should anyone bother to compare.

Quite the criminal trifecta in play.

suanlatudousi · Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Posts: 384

Teatime of Soul · Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 905

evaforsure · Joined: 26 Jun 2004 Posts: 1217

While I am sure no body will advise breaking the law, what ever you can get away with .. I would think that any problem occured would be similar to false reporting on any form, and more than afew of us have committed that crime......but as the doc used in releases is oftn not a gov form but rather just a letter, it would seem to me that the aformention'd scare tatics would not incl. a charge of false reporting, however forgery may be on top of the list...then again .... maybe the only price to be paid for this kind of action would be a quick tkt out of china...and since most FTs are here for the short term, this would not be a show stopper as to career.. ... as to the charges for anyone using a fake chop, no one yet has actually given a period of time or even what a FT would be charge as, and the law differs as to which Chop is used and for the reasons......forgive me if I dont take legal advice from FT with no Chinese law degree, who have little understanding of the legal system in China...one thing is for sure.. with the mulitiudes of chop makers in the markets a whole lot o copying is going on.....and it has been here for some time ... likly it will continue ..

Teatime of Soul · Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 905

You are mistaken. The 'Letter of Reference" is a government form. One copy goes to the local PSB and one copy goes to the FT.

The old, informal, voluntary, "Letter of Reference" has nearly disappeared.

I'm glad to see you say nobody here would advise breaking the law.

Your post is filled with so many qualifiers like, "I would think", "It would seem to me", ..then again .... maybe" that it certianly seems to fall short of being any definitive rebuttal, if that was the intent.

I will certainly forgive you for not taking legal advice when none has been offered.

After all, If one needs the advice of legal counsel to realise that forging an employer's seal, documents and signature is probably not a prudent course of action, then their legal issues are likely greatly exceeded by other issues.

evaforsure · Joined: 26 Jun 2004 Posts: 1217

mistaken, indeed the letter is still being used as of last week.. maybe your school in your district are only using the forms but in some locations they have gone back to accepting letters, as well ...how would you know that all over china the letter has been 86ed?

Teatime of Soul · Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 905

Sometimes, you seem to be under the impression that enforcement of China's immigration laws is slipping backward into the misty days of yore when you arrived and visas were bought in the open market along with gan doufu and a dollar could by a steam powered tractor. Wink

I think that's a wishful, comforting fiction. My take is that China's immigration laws and how the PSB and SAFEA enforce then are becoming ever more stringent.

Unfortunately, in China, due to language barriers, uneven enforcement and vagaries in interpretation, nobody can claim with certainly to hold every relevant fact in hand.

You have had different experiences here than myself and others. We all tend to view the world through the prism of our experience.

I would wholeheartedly agree with your concern with caution, but I do think a balanced view, is necessary. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

The point I am making is simple: Do your due diligence and make an informed decision based upon the level of risk with which you are comfortable.