Job Discussion Forums

[meiyoubanfa]

I was wondering if anyone could comment on expected savings based on the following:
1. $35935 HKD a month (lowest pay level & housing allowance with NET)
2. a frugal and "going native" lifestyle in HK

By going native, I mean basically NOT falling prey to the usual trappings for expats where money is spent:
1. Alcohol (more than once a month),
2. Western food restaurants/High end Chinese restaurants
3. clubbing, etc.

That means I plan to live much like I did in Mainland China, eating at cheapo restaurants/street food or Chinese style cooking at home and keeping my head down (and out of the drinking/clubbing scene), for the most part.

Basically, living a student lifestyle without many of the student trappings.

In another thread here someone asked a similar question, but the projected savings for them on a frugal lifestyle was said to be about $15,000 HKD. But then again "frugal" was never defined. And if one is only feeding them self after rent is paid ($10,000HKD?), then what are they spending the other $10,000HKD on besides food? Are other things in HK that expensive?

Thanks in advance for any comments!

[Marcoregano]

It's always difficult to judge how much misery (ie. financial penury) people are prepared to put themselves through in order to save the filthy lucre, but consider this: the median wage in HK is HK11,500 a month. Presumably a good portion of the population raise a family on that sort of money. So, even allowing for the fact that you probably won't be able to live as cheaply as a local, saving 20K out of 35K a month would seem quite feasible for someone determined enough. Pls don't take this personally, but are you, by any chance, Canadian? No offence intended if you are - I just seem to come across so many Canadians who are careful with their money.

[meiyoubanfa]

lol. Yes I am. Thats perhaps the first stereotype I have heard from anyone about Canadians that I have never heard before. And that's saying something, considering the fact that I have lived and worked in the USA as well.

Of course, the truth is, I have a lot of student debt to pay off. Secondly, often Canadians get nailed coming home from working abroad and have to pay taxes. Which, as you might know, are sickeningly high in Canada like some other countries--although many of those countries never demand that their residents pay taxes when living abroad unless the figures rise about 80,000-100,000 USD. Some people stash away 4000-10,000 CAN to prepare for such things.

Perhaps it has more to do with student loan debt. I am in Korea at the moment, and out of 15 expats I have met, I seem to be the only one with considerable debt after finishing school. This includes americans as well, despite the fact that their tuition is so much higher.

[RiverMystic]

It adds up in HK. For starters you may be forking out 7000 for a reasonable apartment. In the new territories you can get one floor of a town house for say, 4-5000 (I know of one NET paying 2000 a month -yes, he's Canadian - the same guy who gets 40 000 a month and once refused to enter a tourist attraction with me in HK because of the $30 entrance fee!).

In the mainland you can travel downtown in some cities for as little as 1RMB (yes, one!). In HK, transport can really add up. With my wife, we could spend over $70 on transport in one day - MTR/busses - just to get to central from the New Territories and back. Then you might buy a couple of beers here, a (real!) CD there, a book or two, a pizza, and wa la! If you buy fresh fruit and vegetables, a simple shopping trip to the supermarket can cost 300-500. And there you have it. You've spent $10 000 for the month - and the rest. Trust me, it happens.

[Marcoregano]

IMO having to pay taxes to your home country if you are living abroad (and therefore not deriving any real benefits from your home country) is #$%^&*! outrageous. If, as you hope, you can get a job on the NET prog - even on its lowest salary band - coming to HK would probably pay dividends for you. Otherwise, however, I'd caution against leaving Korea for HK.

I worked in Korea for two years before HK, and although my salary there was far less than here I saved quite well (on the EPIK programme, earning about 1,500 US a month). My first seven years in HK, earning on average about 2,500 US a month, I didn't save a bean - because the cost of living is so much higher and also because I had to pay rent, which was paid for me in Korea. Admittedly I wasn't trying that hard to save here - but nor was I in Korea.

[meiyoubanfa]

lol. Cheap Canadians, for some reason this amuses me...

I suspect the taxes in Canada occur as such for us because so many people are coming and going in Canada with family members working overseas, etc, and yet they want to retire and cash in on Canada's pension plan. The downside of multiculturalism and massive immigration, perhaps.

1500 USD? when were you working here? People who were here 4-5 years ago told me it was kind of a golden age, when 2,000,000 won was worth nearly 3000 USD. Now its worth about 1000. And its still dropping as other economies like the US and CAN are recovering from the recession. Korea isn't.

But alas you are right, few places pay for one's rent....

[Marcoregano]

It's all swings and roundabouts...

When I say I earned 1,500 US a month in Korea ('97-'99) I'm averaging it out. On arrival I think we earned more than that but then there was the Great Asian Crash of autumn '97 and in external terms our salaries crashed in value by about half. Many teachers fled overnight and - I jest not - most of them were Canadians.

Maybe, as you say, some of them had debts at home, so perhaps they had little choice, but I suspect that many of them would have regretted their decision later. In Korean terms we were still able to live high on the hog - our salaries were still worth the same locally - and the currency crept back up in any case. Despite the crash I still saved quite well in UK terms over the two years - and far better than I ever managed in HK until relatively recently.

Korea is better than most places for saving - and certainly better than HK, unless you've got one of the better jobs here.

[meiyoubanfa]

Yeah, Korea is still alright for Canadians I guess. Sorry to hear we have such a rep for being cheap, lol. But then again, I knew plenty of spenders in the mainland who blew it all on booze and girlfriend(s).

Its funny, I always thought that, compared to most people in Asia, I was a middle road saver. Many I met from europe in the mainland lived on 1000 yuan a month with their rent paid for. Down to the last yuan.

Are there any other jobs/companies that pay well in HK? Most people seem to agree that NET is the best overall, though hard to get into.

I just noticed in the other post that someone mentioned groceries costing 300-500 dollars for fresh fruit and vegetables. That US dollars?! HK dollars? That seems a little high, unless one was only buying western products (imported)?? I would hope there were some local markets, as opposed to only supermarkets, for buying produce and the like, like in the mainland...but perhaps im assuming too much

[RiverMystic]

[meiyoubanfa]

If anything hearing about Canadians being called as such nearly had me rolling out of my cushy public school job chair here in Korea with laughter, no worries! It gets easier, once one gets over being alienated from expat culture/circles because she or he does not drink 1,2, or 3 times a week. But I guess that's the flip side to this trick, not offending others with one's cheapness, lol.

That is interesting about the food costs. Man you must eat a lot of fruit, lol. I take it fruit is a little more expensive than the vegetables then. But does that mean there are few to no local markets in HK and its greater area that are mad cheap like the mainland?
(I mean like the side street markets one can find in the mainland with ancient bent over men/women sitting on the street selling hot peppers/fruit and the like--and you getting all you need for the week/two weeks for at most 10 USD? I am guessing not...or maybe there is no difference between the supermarket and there in HK. They even still have this in Korea, which is a pretty modern place. I guess I just assumed HK would too. If that isn't the case, sorry for the overly romantic image of China...lol)

[Marcoregano]

Yes, there are still street markets here where you can buy fruit and veg cheaply, though not as cheap as the Mainland. The regular supermarkets Park n Shop and Wellcome are also quite cheap for most things. It's the 'expat' supermarkets where you really get stung - but also where you find those things you sometimes want - like Olivers and CitySuper - and it's in the last two places that I do most of my shopping. Why?

Well, a few reasons. One of the big ones is time. People who haven't lived in HK probably won't realise how, once you come and live here, EVERYTHING seems to become a rush. Everybody wants to save time - you always seem to be running for a ferry or to get home or get to school or whatever. Both the expensive supermarkets I mentioned are en route to my ferry home. If I detoured to a cheaper one I'd miss my ferry and have to hang around for another - nightmare. They also sell yum food that you can't get at the other places and we feel we deserve it for living here.

But yes that does mean that in a quick dash into the store you can easily spend HK500 just on the evening meal and the essential bottle of vino.

The most outrageously priced thing I think I ever bought was a swede - essential for our Xmas dinner - which cost HK80, probably because it had been flown in. My mum would have a fit - you could buy a sack of them for that much in the UK. But we very rarely buy such stupidly priced veggies and generally try and stick to local stuff.

[meiyoubanfa]

Strangely that sounds about the same as living in Korea, minus the ferry. Everyone in a rush, and everyone western wanting those comfort foods and not having to go much out of their way to get to it due to the time it takes to shop and take the metro. So most people end up doing the bulk of their shopping at Cost-co, a bulk store carrying many western foods. Its pricy.

I guess that makes me lucky, since I find most western food boring in contrast to most asian food. Even for breakfast. You'll find me eating Korean food at cheapo restaurants at 7:30am with all the salary men who were out drinking soju till 7:00am.

But I guess my cheapness still makes me Canadian at least

Anyway, thanks so much for the posts people! I have a good picture now of what shopping day to day will be like should I end up in Hong Kong. Cheers

[Marcoregano]

You don't have to be cheap to enjoy Korean food. IMO it's the best cuisine in Asia. Admittedly it took me a while to get used to some of it, but once I had acquired a taste for it I was perfectly happy eating nothing else, give or take the occasional burger and fries fetish or a hankering for a good old English stew. Even the street food is great, whereas in HK it's among the worst I've come across.

[meiyoubanfa]

I guess it depends what we call cheap, lol. I like the chain restuarants called "Kimbap heaven/land" where you can eat a meal for about $1 -2 USD. Other than that I rarely eat anywhere else, since the price of food has risen about 30% here in the last year. For a meal you are still looking at about 6-10 USD, more than I can afford right now more than once a week. The street food is ok but not as good and doesn't have the variety as mainland china did. It is, however, safer. I don't need to drink a bottle of beer with each meal to sterilize the food