Job Discussion Forums

[007]

Well, I think, there is a difference between racism, discrimination, and tribalism in the Magic Kingdom, and it happened at different levels of the Saudi society. The real racism and tribalism exist among the tribes and classes of the Saudi society. One example of this, is the mixed-marriage between Saudis and non-Saudis.

Discrimination, including the institutional one, in the other hand, is mainly against foreign workers. Also, there is another type of discrimination which is from foreigners (especially with blue/green eyes) against the Saudis and other brown skinned people!

[veiledsentiments]

[Mia Xanthi]

My apologies. Summer is approaching, so it must have been a little heat-stroke. I meant to cite VS, not Cleo.

[Cleopatra]

I have to agree with Asda here. I would say that while 'polite society' often hides underlying racism (or bigotry) in "Western" countries, such sentiments often come to the fore either at times of crisis, or when in an environment - such as that of the Gulf - where casual racism is quite acceptable and is indeed part of the social system.

Sadly, I would say that deep down, human beings are by nature, if not neccessarily 'racist', then definately 'tribalistic' - in the sense that, when push really comes to shove, people almost always side with members of their own group (which could be racial, religious, ethnic, national, you name it) against perceived outsiders. Rwanda is a case in point, as is Fmr. Yugoslavia. Most people genuinely believed they had nothing whatsoever against members of the group which was later to become their bitter enemy - marriages and friendships across 'ethnic' boundaries were quite common. But when collective madness takes hold, the famous 'veneer of civilisation' is removed remarkably quickly.

This is what we see - to a far lesser degree of course - here in the Gulf, where political correctness fades very quickly when it is no longer deemed necessary. Of course that in no way excuses the racism expressed by so many locals in this part of the world, but it is an interesting, if not neccessarily edifying, process to observe.

[007]

[Sheikh N Bake]

Adding to VS' comments, as years go by and I continue to "been all round this great big world" (in the words of the Beach Boys, ha ha), I find that religion does little to reduce bigotry. Most of the time the sanctimoniousness encourages it--along with attending violence. The one belief system that has resulted in more killings through the ages than bigotry and greed is religion. Only the Nazis have been more efficient in that regard, considering they were in power only about 12 years.

Mia's comment regarding Japan--YES. Four years taught me what it was like to be on the receiving end of heavy daily doses of racism. Maybe that's a good thing for a white man to experience. To the untravelled Japanese, all cultures and races are inferior to theirs...there is not much analysis or cultural relativism going on. Even at universities. At the college I worked for, a physician was called in to give faculty physicals. He refused to examine the white folks. Korea seems similar, in general, though I am not sure about physicians.

[Pikgitina]

Cleopatra's last post is spot on. While in the Gulf, I was disappointed by the racism displayed by my students. I soon realised, however, that I had been naive to have deemed them any more tolerant than other peoples/nations/people.

Since I left the Gulf for a more "traditional" (i.e. not monolingual) language school back home where adult students from 5 contintents (we don't have any from North America or Antarctica ) study English, I time and again see racism either blatantly displayed or badly covered up. Also, there are wonderful examples of racist-free interaction - if I could call it that. Some mornings when I arrive, overly cutesy Korean girls rush to hug their Gabonese classmates or Turkish students come and complain that they don't "understand" the black students in their classes. Sometimes Japanese students don't want to be in the same class as the "noisy" Saudis. Then there's also a Venezuelan dating a Libyan!

Sure, these examples are very random and all from my perspective. They may look quite different from another angle. It just seems to me that some people welcome difference(s) while others can't accept or tolerate it - and even dislike what is different/foreign. Sadly, some groups of people do lean more towards the unaccepting side of things. I come from such a society myself.

I do agree though that when push comes to shove (e.g. Cleopatra's examples), we will probably side with what we know and with those that seem "more like us".

[Mia Xanthi]

[trapezius]

[Sheikh N Bake]

And don't forget the Dear Leader's younger brother, Men-Tali Il.

[buildbyflying]

saw this thread and wanted to support to the OP who meant well enough. Positivity is certainly best outlook.

However, a warning goes out to future SIT fellows. Be aware of the following conditions:
1. The fellowship is really just a loan. In fact, INTERLINK saved money by paying for your schooling. Your contract is set at 28k USD for the first year and they pay 7k of your 15k per year tuition. 28+7=35k, about 5 grand less than their advertised starting salary. the second year you do get a significant raise 36k, but this likely is still much less than a second year teachers salary.
2. Piss off anyone along the way and you can't just up and leave your job. Quitting or getting fired will result in your failing your IYTP, which is necessary for graduation. The IYTP can be redone, but all costs come out of pocket at around 5-10k and you must wait an additional year.
3. AYU loses teachers almost as quickly as they hire new teachers. Ask anyone reasonable that teaches there. Of course, leaving one uni in riyadh for another is not all that unusual (which of course is impossible under the fellowship.)
4. Ahad Shahbaz will likely try to sell you on the MAT even if you already possess a PhD. Don't fall for it unless you don't mind 28k when you should be getting 50K.

Do I have a bias? Sure. But I'm just telling it like it is. To all who continue with the SIT INTERLINK fellowship -- good luck and whatever you do, don't complain.

[yellow_trainers]

[nomad soul]

[yellow_trainers]

[balqis]

In general educational bodies of all sorts, be it teachers or profs, these bodies are very cheap, so little money is enough to buy their conscience, and it is easy to buy their conscience for small pittance.
Such is my experience of this profession, and I am almost at the end of my career. Indeed shameful, and very sad too.

balqis

my own experience of al yamamah was very negative; they are sick and dangerous institution; though their female students, genuine Saudi flowers of the desert, are charming;