Job Discussion Forums

Katzwyl · Joined: 19 Feb 2004 Posts: 54 Location: In Guangzhou

I see! Well, this explains a lot about myself and how I feel about other people sometimes!

My dad has always taught me to take care of others, do things to make life easier for others when I can, etc. In return, when I need help, other people will take care of me.

Well, this is definitely not characteristic of Westerners. I have always gotten a bit miffed when people do not reciprocate my gestures. I find that I get help only when it works in their favour too, if they are super nice by nature, they are my *REALLY* good friends, or I begged a lot for it. In the last case, the other person would really let me know that they are doing me a huge favour... something I've picked up on doing over the years so that the receiver notices that I've gone out of my way for them.

In Chinese culture, there would be this deep appreciation for favours, without special emphasis.

Anyway, as you can see I'm just slightly bitter. Razz

But my point was to say thanks, NumberOneSon, for explaining guanxi to me because I know a little more about myself. Very Happy

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

The downside of guanxi is, that anyone can develop it with the people that they think might be useful; clearly a Chinese exercising his guanxi to the local police to the detriment of his adversary - a foreign national, for example - has the upper hand.
Guanxi mostly protects the wrong people. This is, perhaps, why there is such a huge gap between western and Chinese concepts of "friendship". The Chinese version comes pretty close to bribing.

struelle · Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 2372 Location: Shanghai

Lanza-Armonia · Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:58 am Post subject:

@Gmar - I agree I did the same but as with all these types of 'stories' you never, EVER get the whole story. Fair comment? Upon closer reflection I could also do the loser sign to one's head.

@Katzwyl - I think it's some kind of legal authority but because some 'people' do not put the inter-nations <sp?> it's a nightmere guessing what it is. The only guanxi I know off by heart is mei1 guan1 xi3 <no problemo>

@Evry1 else - Enjoy life

LA

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Like many translations, I think guanxi being "relationships" is a poor translation. To me, guanxi is more "antirelationship". Forcing someone to do something because you have guanxi over them. Chinese do nice things for friends, but that is not guanxi. Guanxi is doing something for someone else because you have to, based on face and desire for power.

A student friend of mine is supposed to show her ID to the gatekeeper when she comes to see me. But she is friends with the gatekeeper, and me. So to show her guanxi, she won't show her ID. The gatekeeper wants her to show the ID, but can't ask, because of guanxi. Now the girl nearbye often spends a lot of time with a foreigner, who maybe has a little less guanxi. She wants to show her guanxi too, by not showing her ID. But the gatekeeper won't give her face, and makes her show the ID. Big battle erupts. You think only kid stuff?

Now take it a step further. Two businessmen in competition. One uses his guanxi to get a contract with the schools. The other is totally shut out. So he poisons the product of the other businessman and kills a bunch of children.

Chinese people HATE, I mean HATE Guanxi. But they use it because they live their live in a culture of fear. Rich man goes into a restaurant with friends, and makes the poor guy trying to make a living give him and his friends dinner for free, because they have guanxi.

Using guanxi is all too often like a cop on the take. Who dares complain.

I use it at the train station so I can sit in the nice section and not wait in the huge crowd for the train

Guanxi suxks!

woza17 · Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 602 Location: china

Roger, with all due respect. It's not the full story. Yes, the women is treating him badly. Why, because he doesn't have a white face, he is not a native speaker. His written English is so so. He is also losing confidence in himself because of this treatment. I like the guy he is a very decent man. I do feel sorry for him. This is a market as you well know. The Chinese don't like black skin so the person has to work harder to gain their respect. I worked with a beautiful Nigerian man in Wuhan, a student who worked part time as an English teacher, he won over the students with his charm and great command of the language. Intelligent and thoughtful people see through that barrier and I hope that he can help bring those barriers down.
I thought twice about sending this e-mail but what the heck

PS I think sometimes we are too PC and we don't want to address the difference because we will be seen as racist but the point is racism does exist and I am all for calling a spade a spade (no pun intended)

Katzwyl · Joined: 19 Feb 2004 Posts: 54 Location: In Guangzhou

Lanza-Armonia - the word you are looking for is "intonation". Very Happy

I have seen the evil guanxi in chinese gangster and gambling movies.

The only guanxi I have ever been taught is the nice one tho. Smile

struelle · Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 2372 Location: Shanghai

woza17 · Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 602 Location: china

We also have this guanxi thing, "It's not what you know it's who you know"
Old boys network and so on.
Last Saturday I went to the job fair with one of my students who has been unemployed for the last 2 months and only had 200rmb to last him till he got a job. I said go with me, a white face and you will be noticed and they can see that your English is good and you can talk with foreigners he got 5 interviews and now has a job. This guy has no relationship here so I did what I thought was the best thing to do. I believe in networking and using the little power I have. In China they take it a bit too far, putting people who are not qualified for that job in the job because they were in the army and fought against the Vietnamese borderline skirmishes for example

NumberOneSon · Joined: 03 Jul 2003 Posts: 314

Another single-word meaning for guanxi is "connections". Perhaps
that makes more sense in English.

As woza pointed out, it's not something entirely foreign to western
society (e.g., the "good ol' boy network"), but it may go a little
deeper. But maybe not, since I once met a CIO who admitted
that the only reason he got his job was that he was golf buddies
with the CEO, and that he wasn't qualified at all.

Oddly enough, growing up in the South in the U.S. helps
me understand this sort of thing, as I can see a lot of parallels
between the Chinese Way and the Southern Way where people
are generally friendly, but still distrust outsiders because they
don't know their kinfolk or "what kind of people" they are.

People where I grew up could tell you the history of good and
bad things that most people's parents and grandparents had
done and used that to judge each other as much as what the
individual had done. If you were a jerk, you were less of a
jerk if your parents were good. A lot of people who should
have been thrown in jail stayed out because of this.

Of course, that has changed a lot in the past 50 years in the
South, and will probably change in China as well. Social
mobility has a lot to do with it, since the old ways meant
that it could take decades to settle into a new community.

Other interpretations of guanxi are "matter" and "concern". But
when most people talk about getting things done through guanxi,
they mean connections or relationships.

It is the same guanxi used in "no problem", but the meaning in
that phrase is closer to "matter" or "concern" and means it
doesn't matter, or don't worry about it.

I have heard that to the Chinese, life is a constant accumulation
of little and large favors between individuals and families that
obligate people to each other for generations.

Now that's a fairly conservative social force that makes it hard
for newcomers to get established. I don't know how much it
has changed recently, but I think it helps explain a lot.

The other side of this, of course, is that you need to be careful
giving expensive gifts to a lot of Chinese or you might make them
feel obligated to do something big in return.

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Number One ..sounds good. Guanxi runs very deep. In New York City the mafia contrlos so many things, intermingled with some of the unions. So a janitor at a public school makes as much as a teacher, and often doesn't show up.
Guanxi is often deep, personal, nasty, totally inconsiderate of your supposed friend you are taking advantage of.

Public and private schools are full of workers totally unable to do their job, but are there because of guanxi/corruption. The teachers I know will never ask a workman to work on their house because so many of the school workman got there jobs through guanxi, and resent being asked to do work, and usually can't do a good job. So i am told and have experienced.

NumberOneSon · Joined: 03 Jul 2003 Posts: 314

Katzwyl · Joined: 19 Feb 2004 Posts: 54 Location: In Guangzhou

Susie · Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 390 Location: PRC

Students turn to social network for jobs
Latest Updated by 2003-01-17 15:58:49
When the going gets tough, the tough, well, go for guanxi.

As colleges churn out record numbers of graduates and the job market being the toughest it has been for years, students are increasingly looking to networking to land a good job.

According to a recent survey of about 1,000 graduates at Nanjing Forestry University, nearly half said they rely on parents and relatives to pin down a job.

A similar survey by a Guangzhou-based youth research centre last November also suggested that over half of the students there believed networking was a must to ensure a good job.

Not surprisingly, those whose parents could plug into a rich network of contacts were least worried about job prospects.

"Networking is an effective way of finding a job," was the conclusion of Zhou Tongjian, a teacher at Nanjing Forestry University who oversaw the survey.

"It is a broad idea. In addition to parents, relatives and friends, even classmates, neighbours and anyone you know might offer some help. Don't rule out anybody as a networking contact," Zhou said.

He added that some companies, in fact, welcome a graduate introduced through contacts more than one they encounter at job fairs.

"Some companies are sceptical about graduates they meet in job fairs as too many cheat in their resumes. But a candidate introduced through an acquaintance is believed to be more reliable," Zhou explained.

Students agree that networking is important in ensuring a good job, but a surprising number still express some distaste with such help.

Even Zhao Huili, a graduate who found a job in a Shanghai bank through her father's network, said she hated the word "networking".

"Parental intervention diminishes your ability in finding a job," she said.

She had insisted on looking for a job on her own and it was only when she repeatedly encountered failure and frustration that she gave in.

Zhao might be independent-minded, but pragmatism won out. "This is not a time to be stubborn. I needed all the support I could get," she said.

This may sound disheartening for graduates who do not have much in the way of networking resources.

So, this leads to one obvious question: Just where does one go to network on campus?

"It's a process of getting to know society. Students can start to do so by participating in seminars, company-sponsored projects and other social activities linked to the off-campus world," Zhou said.

"It's also a wise idea for students to build up social contacts by going into the community to offer voluntary service, for instance," he said.

As they say, it all depends on who you know.

http://www.newsgd.com/news/gdsociety/200305130118.htm