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coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
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 Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, I was told by my last two employers exactly the same thing. This therefore almost certainly holds for Russian licensed schools. Maybe you get a better deal than with BKC and others; if so, then look at Russian firms rather than UK ones. Why would I want to look at whether or not they pay the authorities? Isn't that their business rather than mine? |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting.. just I have never heard of anything along those lines before. Depends, I guess, on if a school is really a school or not, what type of licence etc.
Re paying the authorities, I for the most part agree with you. However, when they deduct the 'taxes' from your salary and then you need some medical treatment, I think it becomes your business too. There is a raft of employment rules that are routinely broken by employers because they know their foreign teachers are very hazy on thier rights. E.g. Instant dismissal? Very difficult to do here without compensation to the employee. But sadly very few teachers know this |
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GF
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 238
Location: Tallinn
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| coledavis wrote: |
| Sorry Bels, but with the exception of American airbases in other countries, everybody has to abide by local laws not their own. |
You forgot about British stag parties and British Council operations. |
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coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| E.g. Instant dismissal? Very difficult to do here without compensation to the employee. But sadly very few teachers know this |
I think there are schools with government licences, which have contracts, which stipulate periods of notice (I'm omitting gross misconduct of course). Don't you ask to see a contract before taking on a job? In both of my recent jobs, I at least got sent a dummy contract (i.e. without my personal details) so that I could decide on whether or not the job made sense.
As I think I said elsewhere, if you knowingly join a dodgy organisation, you are abetting them and are of course liable to suffer as a result of the corner-cutting. |
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BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| canucktechie wrote: |
| BELS wrote: |
| Is BKC not owned by company House registered in the UK.. |
No it's not, it's owned by Russians. You are probably thinking of International House, which is in fact British. But IH is just a franchise like McDonald's. You don't think the employees of McD's in Russia are governed by US law do you?
| coledavis wrote: |
| Sorry Bels, but with the exception of American airbases in other countries, everybody has to abide by local laws not their own. |
Not just American, for example the British in Cyprus.
Anyway you forgot embassies, which are governed by their home laws everywhere. |
Sorry and yes I was talking about International House. Isn't BKC owned and controlled by International House. and International House is based in UK and is British.
If a a British company employs a British citizen in any country and have reason for complaint, the British Employment laws have powers to deal with that British employer. |
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BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| GF wrote: |
| coledavis wrote: |
| Sorry Bels, but with the exception of American airbases in other countries, everybody has to abide by local laws not their own. |
You forgot about British stag parties and British Council operations. |
I don't know what you mean about British stag parties, which to me means a men only party just before you get married. In regards to The British Council, all Russian students I know believe that the disappearance of the British Council was a great loss to the Russian people. There was also a Russian court hearing that cleared the British Council of any offence. So there you go, it was a political revenge and farce from the Russians after all. Tit for Tat. |
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BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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My Russian wife has come up with something interesting, and she's well informed in this area. By Russian law you should receive an employment contract in both Russian and English. Both contracts should state exacly the same translated from Russian to English. There are some words at the the bottom of which I can't remember exactly what she sais, but it's something like THIS CONTRACT IS LEGALLY STANDING.
Even if you don't understand Russian you should receive both contracts, otherwise you haven't got a leg to stand on. |
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GF
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 238
Location: Tallinn
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I mentioned the stag parties because they are notorious in the Baltics and most places in Old Town here have banned them because when the guys get pissed, they are a law unto themselves and are capable of doing almost anything. The police often have to get involved. |
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BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| coledavis wrote: |
| Well, I was told by my last two employers exactly the same thing. This therefore almost certainly holds for Russian licensed schools. Maybe you get a better deal than with BKC and others; if so, then look at Russian firms rather than UK ones. Why would I want to look at whether or not they pay the authorities? Isn't that their business rather than mine? |
I agree what a company does is no concern of mine, if I have no knowledge of it.
But I would like you to inform me of the names of Russian companies who are giving better deals. Let's take account of free visa support etc return flight payment, and accomadation. I must admit that I am disgusted with the free accommadation offered in Russia by all employers here. But at least BKC gives a crappy shared apartment, of which is necessary as part of employment for native speaking teachers.
Yes! There are Russian companies offering a higher salary, but we must take into consideretion the value of the whole package, including the necessary accomadation, return flight guaranteed of course, and visa with legal work permit. Those who are already here, and don't need accomadation, flight visa or work permit should be offered a much higher salary that takes into consideration these costs they have no need to pay for. In other words. What is the salary for those who have no need for visa support, work permit, accomadation etc. I do believe it should be an annual salary doubled at the very least.
Out of all Expats in Russia I think the TEFL profession are the worst treated, and yes it's disgusting that that's the way it is. |
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coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="BELS"]
| coledavis wrote: |
| Out of all Expats in Russia I think the TEFL profession are the worst treated, and yes it's disgusting that that's the way it is. |
Undoubtedly true, Bels. Indeed, I don't count myself as part of them merely because economically I'm not in their league. Having said that, the reason is simple: market forces. Essentially, any graduate who is a native speaker of English can, hopefully with four weeks of training, become a TEFL. Especially with the 'widening participation' in higher education of recent years, that means we're two a penny. Anybody who decides to do EFL has to recognise that, at least until they have some experience, they are very low in the food chain.
With regard to the issue of being compensated for having one's own accommodation, I have seen this dealt with in some employment contracts (again, with licensed Russian companies). They offer either free digs or a few hundred additional dollars. As usual, check the contract and ask if it isn't there. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Basic fact is an English language contract is worthless - and that is all I seem to be offered when applying even for part-time classes. And also, things like notice periods are not something that can be provided for in an individual company's contract: these are labour code issues akin to constitutional rights. Though I cringe at how naive that sounds. Most schools I've been with are willfully ignorant on these questions, but an official solicitor's letter soon has an amazing effect on their attitude re holiday pay and redundancy pay etc.
Nobody needs to suffer from corner-cutting when it's the employer doing the cutting. In the event of a contractual dispute of any nature, get legal advice. You'd be surprised how effective it is. At least that's my tuppence hap'worth's.... |
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coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
Basic fact is an English language contract is worthless - and that is all I seem to be offered when applying even for part-time classes. And also, things like notice periods are not something that can be provided for in an individual company's contract: these are labour code issues akin to constitutional rights. Though I cringe at how naive that sounds. Most schools I've been with are willfully ignorant on these questions, but an official solicitor's letter soon has an amazing effect on their attitude re holiday pay and redundancy pay etc.
Nobody needs to suffer from corner-cutting when it's the employer doing the cutting. In the event of a contractual dispute of any nature, get legal advice. You'd be surprised how effective it is. At least that's my tuppence hap'worth's.... |
I'm not sure that this is so terribly different from the position in England. Some firms in both countries are conscientious about their responsibilities and some are not, with the occasional need to remind them of their duties. And part-timers are always in a more precarious position, especially as they are often employed for a role of flexible working. The contracts tend to reflect the labour code, as far as the ones I've seen and signed are concerned. The fact that your solicitor can do the business rather demonstrates that the contract is far from being useless, but is in fact enforceable. Which brings me to a related point: schools' licences are rather valuable things and they don't want to endanger these by complaints about the legitimacy of their dealings. |
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jonniboy
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 751
Location: Panama City, Panama
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| GF wrote: |
| I mentioned the stag parties because they are notorious in the Baltics and most places in Old Town here have banned them because when the guys get pissed, they are a law unto themselves and are capable of doing almost anything. The police often have to get involved. |
It's been the same here though they've mostly vanished due to the economic crisis and the collapse of the pound against the Euro (to which the Baltic currencies are pegged.) |
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canucktechie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| BELS wrote: |
Sorry and yes I was talking about International House. Isn't BKC owned and controlled by International House. and International House is based in UK and is British |
Not it's not owned by IH. IH is a franchise, like a fast food restaurant or a car dealer.
As for "controlled", even the things that IH is supposed to have control over, such as teaching evaluation, are followed rather loosely. |
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BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| canucktechie wrote: |
| BELS wrote: |
Sorry and yes I was talking about International House. Isn't BKC owned and controlled by International House. and International House is based in UK and is British |
Not it's not owned by IH. IH is a franchise, like a fast food restaurant or a car dealer.
As for "controlled", even the things that IH is supposed to have control over, such as teaching evaluation, are followed rather loosely. |
I wasn't aware that IH Was a franchisor, but the registered company is in the UK. Therefore if any returning employees have any grievances of BKC tcontrivene the employment laws of the the UK, who have been invited for employment in the UK, should refer to IH as well as BKC. British employers have standards to meet no matter where they are in the world. Especially when a British company has invited a British person to work, when the company is registered in Britain. |
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