Job Discussion Forums

[arioch36]

Deborann

[Sara Avalon]

[johnslat]

Dear dmb,
Looks like diplomacy's out, too. The warfare continues. Once a thread like this starts to spin out of control, reason goes out the window. Having tried to "wave the white flag", I think I'll just hunker down in my foxhole and wait until this - and the other such threads - die natural deaths.
Regards,
John

[dmb]

Dear John,
????????????
You leave us for a couple of weeks and this is what happens. Do you still have your badge? Do people stll respect it?

[Deborann]

What I have seen asked for on this discussion is for women not be be objectified by a particular physical attribute. I think a number of women have clearly stated that they are asking to be treated with respect - a behavioural aspect of social interaction.

Therefore I am not telling you how to 'be', but requesting that you observe my basic human rights - to be treated with respect as a human being, not as a lesser being, open to offensive remarks because I happen to be a certain colour, gender or creed.

Surely control of your own behaviour is the real mark of a mature adult - and that includes the way you write, speak and act. If you are unable to anticipate at least some of the consequences of your actions, then it is more than possible that you could be developmentally delayed. If, having anticipated some of the consequences, you continue to behave in a way likely to cause offence, hurt or anger, then it suggests that something more serious could be wrong.

[johnslat]

Dear dmb,
I don't need no stinkin' badge - besides, I'm beginning to feel like Rodney dangerfield, anyway:

I don't get no respect.

Respectfully,
John

[arioch36]

John , we respect you, no please come out and get shot at with the rest of us???

[dmb]

Who is this Dangerfield character?

John, you always have my respect. Anyone who lives in Saudi for more than about 10 minutes desrves it

[Sara Avalon]

Arioch.. is it your time of the month? PCS acting up, eh? If it is .. I have some great over the counter medicine for that unsightly little burp in your mind.

[leeroy]

I often objectify women.

It's not a conscious decision, and not something I am immensely proud of. It's a knee-jerk response - if I sit opposite a girl on the train who looks nice then she is automatically "objectified". I am guilty as charged! Men do objectify women, it is in our biological nature and difficult to repress. In some ways I am sure that women also objectify men...

However, I am also capable of empathy and respect as well. Most men are. Laddish behaviour and all that goes with it is nothing more than a primitive but amusing male bonding exercise. For example, a man may boast with the boys that his new girlfriend has got big jugs... This does not expose his entire range of feelings though, only the ones that he has deemed appropiate to communicate in that situation. Men are sensitive and empathic too - they simply communicate these concepts differently. I rarely tell the guys down the pub that "it's cute when my girlfriend smiles because she always tilts her head a bit sideways" - this is innappropiate behaviour. It doesn't mean I don't feel it.

Ironically, it seems remarkably unintuitive to conclude that "because all men talk about is *beep* that that's all they think about".

[johnslat]

Dear dmb,

"Who is this Dangerfield character? "

http://www.rodney.com/home/home.asp

(But do me a favor - when/if you go to that site, show a little respect for the poor guy.)


"Anyone who lives in Saudi for more than about 10 minutes deserves it."

You call that living?? OK, for more than about 10 minutes, maybe. But let's face it - anyone who lasts 19 years there, well, I mean you got to
figure there's something weird about a character like that.
Regards,
Weird John

[ls650]

Wow - what a thread! Can you feel the love?

[Aramas]

Well I'm going to continue to objectify women and the PC's can kiss my shiny white buttocks

Being PC is no different to adopting any other extremist point of view, and about as interesting too. It's particularly ridiculous in this case since propagandist dogma dressed as pseudo-rationalist thought is utterly irrelevent when it comes to sexuality. It's an entirely unconscious process, but the political prudes expect us to keep our mouths closed unless we're willing to spout the party line.

Our beloved fuhrer (the media) knows what's best for you! Conform or be cast into the pits of reality!

[Deborann]

Arioch, you certainly seem ot know your Cosmo well. I haven't read it since I was a kid looking for giggles. However, a few men of my acquaintance seem to read it. One guy I went out with (shorter than I, and a little chubby, BTW) was particularly good at his craft, and claims he learned it all from Cosmo!

Young women do read those magazines, partly to find role models (bit scary when they are offered Callista and Co), but they also grow out of them. It is a maturity thing, immaturity unfortunately being a time when girls are most insecure about themselves as human beings, and desperate to be seen as attractive/interesting to both males and to their friends.

The studies you quote so often should also have taught you that girls are born more attracted to faces, voices and people than abstract shapes, and are more easily socialised into wanting to please others than boys.

The combination of immaturity/insecurity with desire to please is a bad combination. Many of your generalisations have a grain or two of truth in them - for mid-late adolescent women, but a growing maturity and some experience with the world, themselves and men change those attitudes pretty quickly.

I am assuming that the majority of women on this board are beyond the ages of mid-late adolscence and have therefore moved beyond the desperation you seem to find in magazines. I enjoy make-up - it's fun when I can be bothered to put it on- I adore perfume - again it's fun. But I genuinely do it for me to have fun - not as an attractor to fellas. My presentation is to make me feel I am looking fine - to me. Once I have walked out of the house I don't look in a mirror again, and if someone comments on clothes etc I have to have another look at what I have got on!

By the way - I adore my pancreas - it is the cutest little thing, and I treasure it enormously!

[James_T_Kirk]