Job Discussion Forums

[william wallace]

On this GD forum I've brought up in the past the never ending jobs I've had that are exceptionally fraudulent, inept and giving me mostly a litany of bad experiences. In response to those posts, I was given a neat and tidy answer about how these were mere entry level positions, and that the jobs I've not experienced were not of this caliber,and therefore, would be more professional and desirable.

The answer seemed too curt;given that I had taught both at public and private schools,ESL or ESP, well paid or not - It made no difference. There generally was no distinction in qualifications among colleagues;they ran the full gamut from high school dropout with poor English as a second language, right up to mulilingual, with years of experience and heaps of relevant training and education.
My question: Where would these jobs be advertised ? Over the 15 years in ESL, I most have stumbled across quite a few sources of ESL work. The only hypothesis I arrive at, is that maybe the city or country I am is a problem- Beijing,China !.... ?
Cheers,
WW

[Nozka]

Maybe your country of choice is an issue - I haven't worked in China - but I'm willing to bet that there are high-caliber jobs there too.
Nevertheless, I'm confused. If the qualifications of your colleagues "ran the full gamut," then how can you say there was "no distinction" among them? Perhaps you meant quality?
It seems to me that the problem is still one of where you are choosing to work or rather who you are choosing to work for. If the schools you are working in are hiring high school dropouts, then that says quite a bit about the quality of the program. And just because others there have heaps of experience does not mean that they are any good either. It's probably why they are at these crappy schools too.
I think what you need to find are institutions which are discriminating and willing to hire only those who are well qualified, and yes, these often do require experience and advanced degrees to get into. They also tend to advertise less because they are not turning over employees like they were flipping tortillas.
If you've been in ESL for 15 years and you still want to stick with it, I suggest you go get an MA or a credential at least. About two years of crap schools was enough for me.

[william wallace]

I'll give a few varied examples to show you what I mean:

Teaching a UK accredited course at a top 10-20 university in Beijing 40 USD per hour.There was supposed to be training and guidance under the UK body overseeing it .In reality, I could not teach the course because the students didn't understand me when I taught in English,and this was not to be an learning English class.The students often came and went as they pleased,garbage littered the aisles,there were numerous students with heads on desk.I was the only foreign teacher in this program,but ALL were to have taught using English,but they were not doing this.

Teaching "Computer English' at a university where I really was just to let them shoot the @#$(meaningless meandering self-focusing chat);when they needed to muscle up their language skills for IELTS,TOFL,GRE etc to go on to grad studies. 50 USD per hour.This academic year they made this job full-time for 700 USD per MONTH

Private language schools - Some ask for CELTA,B.Ed etc..however, greatly worse than the above mentioned learning(less)environments.One of the BIGGEST schools(ABC) has a freaking phrasebook as its backbone of curriculum,with grammatical,structural and spelling errors,as well as poor to inept translation (" Happy birthday FOR you".)And this school is highly successful and spreading throughout Beijing and China - What does that say about the discriminating consumer /student ?

I would love to pick up more education,but ...
1. I can not afford to attend
2. I see no practical application based on experiences incurred NOW.
3. I would prefer to study on what interests me(if I got #1)

I know a Canadian joint-venture high school and university (Concorde) where ONLY B.Eds are recruited,BUT those shiny new teachers come to see that those students often should fail in getting their K-12 cert,but the Chinese teachers provide sufficient marks to carry them forward. Those newly B.Ed teachers can't say anything about their bad experience,as it would nullify their working experience AND question the legitimacy of their Canadian gotten B.Ed from the University of New Brunswick which is the Canadian partner...Everyone stays quiet!

There's more examples,but you get my drift,eh?

[naturegirl321]

Same thing here in Peru, you get people fresh off the boat making more than you beause they were hired aborad. FOr language shcools, they all �y the same, unless you stay for a decade or two.

Here they say that you either have to have VERY good connections, or wait for someone to die.

[Justin Trullinger]

I know nothing about China, so can't comment much.

But what quals do you have, WW?


A lot of the best positions are rarely advertised, so it turns into a vicious circle until/unless you find a way to break in...


Best,
Justin

[hollysuel]

[Justin Trullinger]

Two ways that I've seen work.

One is to work in a small, good, organisation, and stay a while. This may mean you're earning less than a big school in the beginning, but when they promote from within you'll be right in line. And it can get you the kind of experience you'll never get changing jobs every year.

The other, not to beat a dead horse, is to get more qualified. You'll be more marketable with more qualifications, and you'll also make contacts through training.

A and B together seem to work especially well. Work your way up within one school or institute for a while, and get more quals while you're there.

I came to my current school as a cert qualified teacher with two years experience. I plan to leave with a masters, a qualification in teacher training, teacher training experience, and a couple of years as DOS. It can be done, but you have to "hussle!"



best,
Justin

[naturegirl321]

Justin, HOw long have you working there for? And how did you end up getting the job in the first place, word of mouth? emailing?

[Justin Trullinger]

Six years with the same organisation. (EIL Ecuador.)

18 months as a "regular" teacher, then senior teacher, DOS, teacher trainer, course designer...the memories blur.

THe teaching position was advertised here on Dave's, nearly seven years ago. I applied online, and...got pretty lucky.



Best,
Justin

[naturegirl321]

I think that if you can outlast others, than that's often more important than quals. If you can stay a long time at a place, you gain the boss's confidence and can move up.

this has it's limits. I stayed two years at a uni, became the head teacher of intermediate, but was demoted after the DOS decided that only local teachers could be heads of dept.

I think that it's hard to move up. Here in Peru, there are a few people with high positions, that guard them with their lives.

You might also want to consider TEFL training, look at www.teflcertificationabroad.com and try emailng them, or better yet, go in person.

[william wallace]

I stayed with one school full then part-time for 4 years,but it went under...and that was the longest at any place (British Council 3.5 years)in all my years in ESL.

[naturegirl321]

The BC pulled out of a lot of countries a couple of years ago. They left Peru, simply no market.