Job Discussion Forums

[RyanSTL]

Hello Everyone,

I am considering making a serious career and lifestyle change and would like to ask for some honest advice.

I am a former professional with a background in district and regional retail marketing/management. Due to the economy, my department was laid off and I have been unable to find work in my field. I have spent a lot of time online reading about ESL work and overseas opportunities, but there is a plethora of information out there and navigating fact from fiction is difficult.

About me:
36 year old single male, avid traveler, and a small amount of money in the bank. I have a Bachelor of Arts in English. I began college after high school, but stopped because being financially independent made it difficult to manage work and classes, and my gpa wasn't great. I returned to school and completed my degree at the age of 30, and graduated with a 3.8 gpa (cumulative of final 50-60 credit hours at second school). I do not have a teaching background, but I do have experience training small and large groups.

Questions:
1) On paper, does my background suggest ESL as a viable option? I realize I would need certification, but does everything else look good?

2) Which certification is more respected? I assume nothing that is completed online. Is it better to do here in the US before applying for a job, or overseas in hopes of finding a job once there?

3) How do those of you who have done this deal with stripping away all your things back home? I have a home (which may go into foreclosure anyway), a car with 4 years of payments left, students loans for the next 30 years, etc.

4) Do you have to pay taxes back in the US on income you earn in another country?

5) I would prefer to teach and live in Eastern Europe (Baltic States, Romania, Hungary, Czech Republic, etc) but have read it is almost impossible for a non-EU citizen to get a working visa. Are there any Eastern European countries in which this is not the case?

6) It seems as if it would easier to get a first job in a country like China, Japan, Korea, etc. If I were to work one or two years there, could that experience help to get a job in Eastern Europe?

7) Can I make a decent living doing this? Afford a decent place to live, eat out frugally, visit areas around where I would be working, and be able to save for the future?

Is this something most of you do for a few years and then return to the corporate world, or can a lifelong career feasibly be made of it?

Thanks so much for any advice and answers you can give me.

Ryan

[spiral78]

Hi, Ryan

At first glance, yes, you're a viable candidate for EFL/ESL:)

2) Which certification is more respected? I assume nothing that is completed online. Is it better to do here in the US before applying for a job, or overseas in hopes of finding a job once there?


120 hours on-site, including teaching practice with actual students is the basic standard for certification. CELTA is the brand name, but there are generic courses that meet the standard.

There are lots of very good reasons to take a course in the country where you want to start working, if at all possible.

Training in-country offers you a great chance to get your feet wet in the country/culture while you still have a support system � they usually arrange for your housing during the course, airport pickup, and local orientation. Your practice teaching students will really be representative of those you�ll be working with when you start. You can be sure that your certification will be recognized by local employers, and a training centre can give you invaluable contacts and advice regarding reputable local employers.


3) How do those of you who have done this deal with stripping away all your things back home? I have a home (which may go into foreclosure anyway), a car with 4 years of payments left, students loans for the next 30 years, etc.

I sold the car and the house. And, felt FAR freer after! Your student loans will be a worry. There are few places in the world where you can make enough as a newbie teacher to pay off debt back home, and Europe (West, Central, East) isn't among them!

4) Do you have to pay taxes back in the US on income you earn in another country?

Only if you make the USD equivalent of 80,000 per year or more. Unlikely! You do have to file.

5) I would prefer to teach and live in Eastern Europe (Baltic States, Romania, Hungary, Czech Republic, etc) but have read it is almost impossible for a non-EU citizen to get a working visa. Are there any Eastern European countries in which this is not the case?

Wrong. You CAN get a visa for all the countries you mention. It's more or less a hassle, but absolutely do-able. The Western European countries are the near-impossible ones.

6) It seems as if it would easier to get a first job in a country like China, Japan, Korea, etc. If I were to work one or two years there, could that experience help to get a job in Eastern Europe?

Not really. The preferred teaching styles in the regions you mention don't necessarily translate well into European/Western preferences. Language schools here, for the most part, won't give much priority to a teacher with experience in such a different teaching context than those you'll find here.

7) Can I make a decent living doing this? Afford a decent place to live, eat out frugally, visit areas around where I would be working, and be able to save for the future?

As a basically-qualified teacher in Europe (BA in anything, including English plus CELTA or equivalent) you can't really expect to save for the future. You can make enough to enjoy being here and to do the other things you mention. To make a career of it, you would eventually need better quals (DELTA or related MA).

Is this something most of you do for a few years and then return to the corporate world, or can a lifelong career feasibly be made of it?

Depends. If you're willing and able to pursue higher quals as described above, it can be a fantastic career (yeah, I love my job!). But I think it's fairly safe to say that at a basic level, one is highly unlikely to be able to make a lifelong career teaching English in Europe.

[naturegirl321]

1) Yes, looks good

2) CETLA; Trinity, SIT

3) Sell everything, or rent your house. Look through your stuff, see if you REALLY need it. Store it. About loans, they might be hard to pay off if you're in somewhere like CHina only making 700 to 1000 usd a mnth.

4) YOu can qualify for up to 87K, no taxes, see 2555. BUt you have to be outside of the US for 330 or have residency abroad. I SHOULD pay taxes in Peru, but teach privates, so I don't. Cash in hand isn't traceable.

5) Eastern Europe is possible, more so that Western Europe. Just don't expect tons of pay.

6) Maybe. Some employers want in country experience.

7) Yes, if you budget.

8. I don't want to do this forever, but it's been 6 years. I'd like to open an English preschool in the future, but legalities are a prob.

[denise]

I don't have too much more to add that the others haven't covered, but generally yes, you will make enough to enjoy your life--you can go out to eat, see a movie, take trips around the country, etc. I've been able to do those things everywhere I've been (Czech Republic, Japan, Chile, Peru, Oman). What gets harder is international travel and saving. With few exceptions, airfare isn't covered, and you might not get very generous vacations.

d

[Glenski]

1) On paper, does my background suggest ESL as a viable option? I realize I would need certification, but does everything else look good?
Depends on where you work. In Japan, certification is not needed for entry level work, but the market here is flooded, so every little bit helps. You are minimally qualified right now and hardly more even with certification.

2) Which certification is more respected? I assume nothing that is completed online. Is it better to do here in the US before applying for a job, or overseas in hopes of finding a job once there?
CELTA, Trinity.

3) How do those of you who have done this deal with stripping away all your things back home? I have a home (which may go into foreclosure anyway), a car with 4 years of payments left, students loans for the next 30 years, etc.
I was foolish enough to keep my stuff in paid storage for more than a year. Don't. PM me if you really need a reason why.

You have some serious financial concerns, and I would even more SERIOUSLY consider what you are doing. Get rid of the car for starters. Let us know what country(ies) interest you, and tell us how much per month you have to pay off.

4) Do you have to pay taxes back in the US on income you earn in another country?
Americans living abroad are exempt from paying U.S. taxes on money earned abroad up to a certain amount. Last year I think it was $87,500. This is far from what an EFL teacher would make, but you must still file!



6) It seems as if it would easier to get a first job in a country like China, Japan, Korea, etc. If I were to work one or two years there, could that experience help to get a job in Eastern Europe?
As for the first point, reread what I wrote above. The market in Japan is flooded, so it is not as easy as it used to be.

7) Can I make a decent living doing this? Afford a decent place to live, eat out frugally, visit areas around where I would be working, and be able to save for the future?
Define how much you would want to save for the future. In Japan, the answer to your other points here is yes.

Cool Is this something most of you do for a few years and then return to the corporate world, or can a lifelong career feasibly be made of it?
I would think that most EFL teachers do it for 3-5 years. Just a guess. I've been at it for 10. Yes, a lifelong career can be made of it, but you will have to get a master's degree and certification, plus learn the local language and keep improving yourself with training and publications.

[RyanSTL]

Thanks to all for the prompt responses. It sounds like it's going to be a little more difficult than I thought to land that first job, but also sounds like Eastern Europe is more open to US citizens than I thought.

I could unload myself of the car and home, but student loan payments are $207 per month. Aside from that I could pretty much free myself of all other debt.

Thanks so much.

Ryan

[spiral78]

You'd be very hard-pressed to pay $207 USD monthly on an Eastern European teacher salary.

[naturegirl321]

[Chancellor]

[nickpellatt]

Hi Ryan

I have done similar to that which you are now planning! I entered ESL at the age of 37, and Im still here slowly making progress, and about to hit 40. (two weeks until the dreaded 4 - 0).

Ill add one or two of my ideas to those already expressed here.

As mentioned, and as you have suggested yourself, online EFL/TEFL certs dont tend to be highly regarded. The standard is generally the 120 hours plus observed teaching practice. This is still very much an entry level qualification, and isnt going to make you the finished article as a teacher. I did a Trinity certificate, and whilst the jury may be out on whether the brand name offers a better qualification than a generic one, it is more recognisable ... that MAY be of benefit to some employers.

I note someone has suggested taking a course in the country you wish to teach. This is often suggested as a good idea, but I dont really agree, although this is just based on my own personal experiences. The course itself is often described as being very intensive, and without any teaching experience, and/or any language awareness skills....its a lot to learn and take in.

I did my course in my UK hometown, and was living at my parents house at the time. This meant I had a good support network, passed the course with flying colours, and learnt something. Many of my peers really struggled, and as far as I am aware...4 out of 12 didnt actually pass!

If that situation was moved to another country ... it would have been harder. I wouldnt have been so comfortable, I would be in a strange country, with new foods/customs/culture and all those distractions, making the course harder to focus on.

I wouldnt have wanted to take my course in China, with a young guy half my age sharing a room and wanting to go out all night drinking and 'worry about the course work later'.

Financially, I am in an unusual situation compared to most people, and I live a very simple life. I have worked in China, and like many foreign teachers there, was able to work few hours per week, yet still earn enough to eat out in restaurants every day of the week, and travel at weekends. Wages are low compared to what you may earn in your home country, but a low cost of living means you do have spending power, certainly in China anyway.

I do intend making it a long term employment choice...I have been slowly slogging away at increasing my experience and skill-set as well as my qualifications to increase my chances of working, but I have no illusions about ever being rich, having a pension, and owning property. I dare say you can have these things, but not everyone who works (and stays) in EFL will get them. There will be exceptions, but thats my thoughts.

What I do have is a job I really enjoy doing ... and even though the work is sporadic in my own country (UK), I do earn enough to 'make do'. I also have the chance to travel and explore new places and cultures, and to enjoy new experiences that some of my office bound UK friends envy.

Long term I know I can return to the UK permanently, and find work in the summer schools and private schools that do exist in my neck of the woods. I can also take in students as boarders to help pay the bills. It isnt the life that everyone would want, but Im quite happy to live like that.

Any other info you want feel free to drop me a PM, and I can bore you senseless with my route into EFL and what I have been doing for the last 3 years....I dont want to bore everyone here with it

[Glenski]

$207 per month is easy to pay off in Japan.

Your biggest problem right now is that you missed the major hiring season. Another stickler is that you aren't here. There are far more jobs in Japan (where the market is flooded and where some employers see it as a sign of commitment that you are physically present) than get recruited outside the country. Your call.

Come and expect to wait 2-4 months to get that first paycheck. Stay at home and it could take just as long if you get hired tomorrow (unlikely) just to process visa and clear your belongings out.

[AirHorn]

I am exactly where you are at, with a BA in English and some training experience but no classroom experience, with my IT career crumbling around me- but I am looking at 50 just around the corner. I did a TEFL certification and found a job in the Middle East that paid enough to take care of existing debts (new car here too, trying to sell it) and have a little to put away. I dumped my career and am now enjoying myself as an ESL instructor very much. It was incredibly liberating to get rid of the house and the attachments to material items that no longer meant anything to me. Go for it - you will only look back and regret that you didn't try it.