Job Discussion Forums

gordon1984 · Joined: 14 Apr 2009 Posts: 19

Hi, im looking into teaching abroad very soon, I have been thinking about it for a while now and was recently made redundant so thought now is the time.

Im thinking of doing an online tefl with i to i then going over to Indonesia and teaching there and if I like teaching then I will look into the celta.

My question is that although I am looking at i to i for my online course, this is only because I have used i to i services before and im comfortable I won't be ripped off, but can anyone else suggest any other online course's that are reputable and have good content to them?

some of the other course's I have looked at are
ICAL
INTESOL
TEFL INTERNATIONAL(ALTHOUGH BEEN ADVISED AGAINST THEM)
TEFL SCOTLAND

I don't have much money at the moment and my lease on my flat run's out soon, so it's a choice between use my money to rent my flat again or use my money to do an online tefl and go abroad and teach, so for me it's quite important I choose the right course.

Any advice would be very much appreciated

cheers

Gordon

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

This question has been asked again and again. Usually i to i courses are less than 120 hours , which is the bare minimum. Plus, does it have a practical teaching compenant of at leats 6 hours?

Online courses, I don't know of any good ones. Face to face courses, try CELTA, SIT and Trinity.

Chancellor · Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject:

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject:

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

I completed a 40 hour i-i online course sometime ago. Its not really much good, its impossible to fail, and it should be completed in less than 10 hours by anyone with any common sense.

I took the course as my employer (who I had already volunteered with for 3 months) suggested I get any certificate. This served a purpose for me, but it wasnt worth the money I paid for it.

It provided no more instruction that threads on this forum did to be honest, and is not really something I would recommend.

if its possible to find employment that offers some on the job training, this would be better ... also consider some volunteer work in an EFL environment ... charities with asylum seekers etc.

The full one month course, be it CELTA or another training provider is a far better bet, and worth doing. The 40 hour online courses are not a substitute in any way, shape or form IMO.

Chancellor · Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject:

gordon1984 · Joined: 14 Apr 2009 Posts: 19

Hey, thank's for all the replies, some really good info there. The thing is I know doing the month long celta and the like would be far better than doing an online course, I don't think there is any debating that, but the reason I asked about online courses is that teaching English abroad is something I have alway's wanted to do, but wanting to do something and actually enjoying it is two different thing's, so that's why I only want to do the online course first, to see if it's for me, hopefully get a bit of teaching experience, and if after a few months I decide it is I would go for the month long course.

Im mostly looking to do an online course to help me brush up on my grammar and thing's, that's what worries me most, and because I used i to i before I get email's from the all the time, and one was about the TEFL, but I am pretty open minded to which one I take, and with i to i you get the job placement service so takes away that worry as well. Im pretty sure I could find a job myself with a bit of endeavour but having someone take that hassle and worry away is a help at the moment to be honest(who am I kidding im just being a lazy so and so)

Im now a little more confused as to where to turn for an online course which is reputable, I read in one of your posts i to i won't be recognised by schools annd things, so do any of you guy's have any ideas on any online courses which would be good for me?

I should mention I don't have a degree so my options are pretty limited anyways, I was looking at places like Indonesia or China to teach, most likely Indonesia, and as I say if I enjoy it I will do the Celta.

But in terms of practical teaching elements I think my CV would be ok with that because the job I just left I was a training provider to prospetive employees within the voluntary sector in the UK, and worked with one of the the largest youth charity organisations, my daily roles involved leading social development workshops with 14-30 year old's, do you guy's think my previous experience would help in my application to potential employers?

Anyways it's late and im struggling to keep my eyes open, thanks for taking the time to have a read at my post and for all the info, cheers

Gordon

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

YOu can also get grammar from students books. BUt the best thing is having to teach it, you have to know it to teach it and you will learn.

Job placement, that's a gray area. MOst places I've found define job placement as simply getting you interviews. They really can't, and shouldn't , guarantee that you will get the job. After all, things like, the actual interview, your degree, background, availability, nationality, age, all play into whether you get the job or not. DOn't put much stock into job placement. If they do guanrantee you a job, it will more likely be at their own school.

See my PM about online courses. Bascically, it should have 120 hours and 6 of teaching.

China's nice, indonesia, but not jakarta., at least I've heard.

YOur volunteer work looks good, play it up.

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

The i-i job placement scheme isnt much use matey. Their service was a list of site where jobs are advertised....Daves ESL cafe is probably on that list.

They also sent me a list of schools and programs with big chain schools that probably cant help you as you dont have a degree.

The final part of their service is they offer placements that you have to pay for....and then in return you get a little help with orientation and settling in, and a salary that is 1/3 of what everyone else in China is likely to be paid.

AVOID AVOID AVOID

The whole course will be a waste of money for you IMO. I really wouldnt bother, I understand why you cant do the CELTA, but spending money on the online course isnt a replacement for it...and it wont really help you brush up on grammar either.

Save your money...honesty!

Whilst I do think you should do some volunteer work first, or take a real course...if you dont want to do either...just apply for some of the schools that advertise here in the jobs section. Schools in China (and possibly Indonesia) will offer you work.

Chancellor · Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject:

father Mackenzie · Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Posts: 105 Location: Jakarta Barat

i to i does not give you enough experience with teaching just simple ground rules and it does not give you any experience of what it is like in a classroom, saying that though, it can you get you basic entry level positions in Indonesia with many schools and the salary whilst not the highest is still enough to live on.
Investing in a CELTA would put you in a better position for finding good jobs, higher salary and most importantly more confidence when starting out teaching.

gordon1984 · Joined: 14 Apr 2009 Posts: 19

Hi, thanks again for the replies, so am I right in understanding that if I do a Celta course I will have potential to get higher paying job's in Indonesia and China and place's like this, even without a degree? But I do agree with you father mckenzie on doing the Celta would give you a lot more confidence when starting out.

In term's of my volunteer work, I must stress that it wasn't voluntary(sorry I can't take plaudits on that one lol), and as I say in term's of experience of the classroom I think I may have that with what I done in my previous position.

The only thing stopping me from doing a Celta is the money at the moment and the fact that im trying teaching out, im not sure I will enjoy it or even be any good at it, who know's.

In term's of grammar and starting out, do you as a teacher follow the school's syllabus and if so would good planing and preperation before your lesson be enough to combat worrie's about grammar and all these things. As I see it, when im delivering training here, although I know the theory behind what im delivering you can't alway's remember why you know it, it just become's second nature through experience, so when I plan a lesson here for a workgroup, I'll plan it out, any part's I don't remember I will read over myself and then look at my lesson and I can usually judge where any pupil's questions might be directed so I'll alway's have the answer's ready. And as a back up if my mind goes blank I alway's have the lesson plan with the correct answers ready just in case, would this same approach work in teaching? Im hoping that like my last job I can learn through experience, is this a plausible way of looking at teaching English for the first time?

Going back to having a classroom based element on any tefl course, surely me having already worked with young people and adult's in a learning environment, running developmental workshop's and also being part of a delivery team that deliver's an accredited qualification to social worker's, youth worker's and carers and potential new employee's of the organisation(I must stress this was a paid position and I would be able to provide reference's) would that not count towards experience of teaching?

Im not totally saying I will not do a Celta, I just feel it would be total overkill to spend upwards of a �1000 before you even know if it's something you would want to continue doing, if after 3-4 month's im loving it like I think I will, then I will do it.

All your post's have gave me a lot to think about. If I was to volunteer say with an organisation here in Scotland that teaches English to asylum seekers and foreign students, would this enhance my CV?

Im going to have to really think about this, I just wanted a course that would freshen my English up a bit, give me some reference tool's and that would look at my grammar, but would I be right in just trying to find some paid work without a qualification then learn on the job and if it's for me go for the Celta?

Anyway's thank's again for all the help, I can't believe how much advice people here are willing to take the time to offer, it's much appreciated.

I have copied my CV down the bottom to give you an idea of what I have done and what my experience actually is, could any of you with experience give me an honest answer on what you think and also what you think my prospect's would be in finding a job if I posted my CV as is without any TEFL qualification's, cheers agin for all the advice, I'll copy my CV below, cheers

Gordon

EMPLOYMENT

The Prince�s Trust Scotland

2007-2008 Youth Support Worker; 2008 � 2009 Youth Support Team Leader/Training Provider
The Prince�s Trust Scotland works with the most vulnerable and disengaged young people in Scotland.

Roles and Responsibilities

Delivering effective training to support staff, volunteers and potential new youth workers through The Prince's Trust youth worker accredited training program "Youth Steps"
Effective delivery of development workshops to raise confidence and self esteem in participants
Network and information sharing with colleagues
Outcome based planning and evaluation skills
Ability to recognise and react appropriately to challenging situations
Maintaining travel expenses/monthly project accounts/petty cash and budgeting
Cross agency working i.e. liaising with partners and other charity organisations
Involved in the creation and implementation of innovative new projects aimed at our client group
Delivering effective and creative presentations to prospective funders
Recruitment of young people for many projects and programmes
Working with young offenders to help them break offending cycle and fulfil their aspirations
Helping young people gain key skills by engaging them with practical support
Delivering one to one and group work sessions with young people
Working to promote positive action with local communities
Facilitating residential courses
Completing and implementing all risk assessments in relation to residential activities while requiring me to work with challenging young people

2006
Travelled extensively and volunteered throughout South East Asia

2005
Registered carer for my sister, caring for and supporting her.

2004 - 2005
Worked and travelled in Australia

2000 - 2004
Field Service Engineer/Data Support
Mitel Telecommunications Ltd , Glasgow
Providing ICT suites in every school within the Glasgow City Council area.

Initially employed as a Field Service Engineer later promoted to Data Support role
Central contact point for customer incident escalations identifying and diagnosing user faults and progressing the call through to satisfactory closure
Provision of exemplary customer service in line with strict Service Level and Key Performance targets
Logging fault calls onto Mitel�s fault logging system using defined procedures to ensure accuracy in the recording of fault data
Updating faults recorded on SAP with progress information, maintaining regular communication with customers and briefing them on progress
Escalating incidents to the Back Office Team or 3rd Parties following defined procedures
Maintaining and developing technical awareness of Mitel service offerings
Software testing to check compatibility with Mitel Network

EDUCATION

The Prince�s Trust Scotland
Level 1 ABC in Youth Work

Comptia
A+Cert For Technical support Engineers

Glasgow City Council/Mitel
Modern Apprenticeship in Installing and Supporting IT Systems

Bellahouston Academy, Glasgow
GCSE in History-2, English-2, Chemistry-3, P.E-3, Maths-3, ICT-3 and French-4

KEY SKILLS

I am IT Literate, using Microsoft Word, Excel, Internet and Email packages to a high standard.
First Aid Certificate

Personal Skills
Effective communicator with first class customer service skills
Can quickly build and maintain a good rapport with people of all backgrounds
Able to remain positive, enthusiastic and motivated in the most challenging situations
Excellent organisational and time management skills
Able to work confidently on my own initiative or as part of a team
Experience with working to a budget

PERSONAL INTERESTS
I have many varied interests. I have a real passion for travelling and enjoy learning about the customs, food, culture, and beliefs of the countries I visit. Being outdoors is a passion and I regularly go mountain biking, snowboarding and trekking. I recently successfully completed the Bluesky Challenge which involves over 40 Km of mountain biking, swimming, walking and running to raise funds for the work of The Prince�s Trust. I enjoy gigs, concerts, theatre and reading.

REFERENCES

References are available on request.

Chancellor · Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject:

gordon1984 · Joined: 14 Apr 2009 Posts: 19

Hi Chancellor, im not saying that just because I can teach other subjects it automatically qualifies me to teach efl, I don't think I have even touched on that in any of my post's, what i did say is that I think my experience is relevant, in my own humble opinion, maybe im wrong and it doesn't matter a jot that I have teaching and traing experience? fair enough it's not teaching efl, but it still involves teaching from a syllabus, lesson planning and so on, is this not relevant to employers?

As I say, I totally understand that if I plan on teaching for a long time maybe even a career, then me as a person my own standards would demand that I got myself a degree and a Celta, but until I am sure it's a long term thing for me im not going to fork out �1000 or more on a course or look into doing a degree course that could take a while and half way through decide teaching isn't for me and I have wasted �1000 and maybe a year or so of my time, I think that's a total irrational way of going about thing's in my own opinion.

At the moment im looking into teaching short term, maybe a year and during that year if I decide, yep this is for me I will invest more in my training.

As I said in my first post it's not just time that is against me, money as well, I have to decide whether I want to re-lease my flat agin in the next few weeks, my last pay check arrives next week so I reckon I have got about 3 weeks to decide what to do, if I want to go abroad and teach I need to decide that soon, because my last pay check would be paying for my flight, any training I might do and also as a cusion until I get my first pay.

But I have read through some posts and have heard a lot of teacher's get paid positions without any qualifications or as I say with some TEFL providers they say they will get you a job with a 100 hour online or at least an interview, and that's what im kinda looking for at the moment, something that isn't time intensive, that will allow me to find paid employment and get some experience. That's why I posted my CV because a few people have said just go look for a job just now without a qualification, so I just wanted some advice based on my CV on what my chance's would be.

Some of the online ones I have looked at are i to i, ical, media kids, tefl international(although I keep hearing bad things about them) tefl scotland, intesol and so on, I read about media kids and I thought they sounded good for just getting your feet wet and getting some experience, but then i to i and others offer training and a placement hassle free, but I hear what your saying chancellor, im still researching it all and hopefully I will find something suitable.

To be honest I have seen online courses like tefl international, media kids and i to i, and I think as an inexperienced tefler "yeah thats cool, a bit of training and hassle free job placement, get some experience at the deep end, learn from my experience and learn as I go then do a celta or the like after I know I enjoy it" Would you say that's a fair way of looking at efl teaching as newbie?

Cheers again, I can't say thanks enough so I'll stop now lol, I need to go out but will check back later, cheers again( I know im throwing questions at everyone thick and fast but I appreciate the advice) cheers

Gordon