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Tom Le Seelleur · Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 242

SHALL AND WILL IN BRITISH AND AMERICAN ENGLISH: A FREQUENCY STUDY (p 70-87)
Inger Krogvig, Stig Johansson
Published Online: Nov 7 2008 8:16AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1467-9582.1984.tb00735.x

Abstract | References | Full Text: PDF (Size: 704K)

Shall we change the subject

johnkg · Joined: 06 Feb 2009 Posts: 127

Sheikh N Bake · Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 1307 Location: Dis ting of ours

I have certainly uttered "Shall we change the subject?" and, in another vein, as a courtesy to a date, "Shall I bring your coat?" or something similar. But then, I am a 104-year-old fictitious and preposterously pompous character in Edith Wharton's House of Mirth.

(I love it when Gillian Anderson says, in the movie version, "If obliquity were a vice, we should all be tainted!")

Now there's another topic--Americans have long since stopped using "should" in favor of "would" in this type of construction. Nobody says "I should like some tea." (Perhaps nobody ever did except in Edith Wharton novels.)

Do some still do that in the UK?

By the way, I stand by this:

Just because half the population misspells "definitely" to read "definately" is absolutely no reason to accept it, any more than I accept interchangeable fiances. Why? Because add in 15 more misspellings along with some popular but nonstandard grammar usages and the student paper or email or whatever you are reading becomes HARD TO READ--and that is unacceptable.

I don't think it's a trivial matter. That's why decent publications have copy editors. Imagine a good newspaper taken over by holistic theoretical linguists. What a mess.

johnkg · Joined: 06 Feb 2009 Posts: 127

Sheikh N Bake · Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 1307 Location: Dis ting of ours

As dastardly fiend adorned with black handlebar mustache and black cloak, I shall tie her to the railroad tracks and bark my orders: "You shall say 'Shall I bring you some tea?' to my satisfaction!"

"No," she screams, "A thousand times no!"

15yearsinQ8 · Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 462 Location: kuwait

in my HS Latin book, the translation from Latin to English for verb congegations revealed an English grammar we had never been formally taught.
'shall' was to be used for 1st person singular and plural (i and we, respectively) and , less frequently, for absolute truths , as in the torturer telling the tortured 'You SHALL tell me where the gold is"
the historical background of the word 'shall' is probably OE (old english) traced to Latin for the purposes mentioned
and AZAR sucks - all azar books shall be burned with delight someday

007 · Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject:

Well, mathematically and statistically speaking, the word �shall� has never been dropped from American English.

I shall be glad to see Mama Lock (VS) recognizes that �shall� has never been dropped from American English! Laughing

�Government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.� � Lincoln
�Righteousness shall go before him and shall set us in the way of his steps� (Ps 85:13)

I have one question to the grammatical people, shall I learn British English or American English? Laughing

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject:

adorabilly · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 430 Location: Ras Al Khaimah

SNB.

she should scream "I shall not!!!"
Rolling Eyes

007 · Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:18 pm Post subject:

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Yawn...

VS
(the usual English teacher rants... no no... it can't be different from what I have been teaching all these years... it's going the way of thee and thou, if not gone already... sorry boys, but so it goes in the real world... come on back anytime... try not to cringe too often when you hear the natives here speaking their lingo... I been listnin' now for a few years and it is often pathetic...)

johnslat · Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject:

Dear veiledsenyiments,

" . . . .come on back anytime."

Fear not - they shall return (even if "shall" shall not.)

Regards,
John

tillymd · Joined: 07 Apr 2009 Posts: 114

Boring.....

johnslat · Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 1:57 am Post subject:

Dear tillymd,
If you are in the Middle East, "boring" is the way of life.

johnkg · Joined: 06 Feb 2009 Posts: 127