Job Discussion Forums

[forest1979]

Here's a starting point:

Do you want to do a MA? List pros and cons. See if one side outweighs the other. Takes things from there.

If you feel you can move overseas, e.g. to somewhere like Taiwan, consider start up costs. From my own experience I can say I have to lay out 3 grand (sterling) when I came, and I was earning from day one so was lucky to cover bills. Do you want to arrange a job before arriving or are prepared to wait? Again, factor this in.

Start from the very beginning with the MA situation. Build from it. Build of it.

[Nevermind]

Daniel
No need to apologize to that guy. I came to Taiwan with my wife with a job lined up before we went. I had 500 dollars US cash in my pocket which I converted at the airport, and 1000 US in a bank account back home. I put the plane tickets on my Credit card, about 1500 bucks. I could pay my credit card on online so every month we were in Taiwan, I paid back until it was paid for. So if you have a job lined up before you go, it is not unreasonable to go with a relatively small amount of cash. I am sure the job market is tighter now than it was several years back so securing a decent job before you go may be tough. I haven't tried in a while so I am not certain about this.

I don't know if the other guy talking realized this, but I think, before he commented, that I had established that you would not be able to go and teach part time, pay for your MA online, and get any sort of a stash. So I don't think that is an area where there is any dispute.

And elements of what he is saying is true. While an online degree MA may be enough to get your foot in the door overseas, it may not be as impressive to people back in the UK if you decide to return and start a career there in Education. These are certainly things that you must weigh and consider carefully before you go, if you go. So you really do have to put in a lot of soul searching, ask yourself tough questions, and DEFINITELY have an exit strategy planned out no matter if you want to return home in 1 year or 10 years.

So take that other guy's advice seriously, but also don't be discouraged. In order to make it and survive in the ESL world overseas you must be able to analyze the best and the worst advice you are given, and make the decisions that will meet your own end goals. Everyone will tell you what to do, even me, lol. But don't be discouraged by negativity. Even though this guy's advice is relatively condescending and smug, he does seem like he is trying to give you honest advice.

So take what we both say, and ask 1000 more people because in the end you will have to live with the decision you make or don't make. I know it can be done because I did it. I know that the online degree can be gotten while working full time, because my friend did it. I know that if you take care of your money, you can get a stash of cash, even quite a large sum of cash, because both my wife and I and our friend did it. So it can be done. You will need to teach full time while getting the degree, but it can be done. Good luck my friend! I wish you the best in your decision.

[forest1979]

Nevermind - "Even though this guy's advice is relatively condescending and smug".

Really? What I am trying to do is be a hard-nosed pragmatist so that the OP doesn't put himself in an awful financial and career position in the future. If that is smug then we obviously differ in our appreciation of what words mean.

As for the OP, he has many serious issues to consider. Money is obviously one, the economy overseas being another, as well as his ultimate career plans. I wish him/her well but there is absolutely no ground to be gained by placing himself on a path that could create financial pressure and not offer the vocational rewards sought. Those for me are the two fundamentals he/she has to run though, and if you see my argument as being "relatively condescending and smug" - given that I have seen many people like the OP have dreams and see them fail - then so be it.

Good luck OP but be practical because otherwise it might take you years to pay off bills and years to get your career on the track you want.

[forest1979]

Just a follow up point.

Nevermind - when you did what you did, what state was Taiwan's economy in? How difficult was it for you then to find work as opposed to a complete newbie now?

[Nevermind]

Did you read what I said in my posts? Did you read fully how he responded to my posts? I said explicitly that my suggestions would not be easy, that he needs to consider the pros and cons of everything, and then make a decision on his assessment of his goals and abilities. If you don't believe me, go back and read what I said. So I didn't tell him too much different stuff than you did, but in a more encouraging way in my opinion. Of course he should be pragmatic, and weigh his options to the best of his ability.

Because I don't live in Taiwan now, and I don't know how easy it is or not to get a job before you arrive in Taiwan, so I cannot answer your question because I can't compare honestly. I was there in the 2003-2005 range, and the NTD/USD was about exactly the same. But I don't know about the difference in job availability between that time and today. So if you truly know about the difference in job availability between these times, by all means please let this guy know so he can make a better, more clear decision.

Go back and read your first couple of posts. You did come off kind of like a "know-it-all" in my opinion, and again, in my opinion, your opinion reflects a harsh bias you have about the current situation in Taiwan. Maybe this bias is legitimate, maybe it is not. But you sort of came off like this guy was stupid for even considering the option, and you "don't even know why he posted the question to begin with" [sic] This is why I thought you seemed kind of smug. But if you were sincerely relaying what you think is vital information for this guy, then I am sorry.

However, just because it may be tough for you now doesn't necessarily mean it will be overwhelmingly tough for him. I mean if we all followed that kind of logic, everyone should just give up their dreams and goals every time there is a recession. But, just the same, I would be wrong to assume he would find equal or even greater amounts of success than I had, just because I was successful. So you could probably call my posts overly optimistic, but I don't really know for sure because I don't know how hard it is to get a job in Taiwan today before you show up.

But I will take you at your word in your claim that your tone was different than it appeared, and was only concern about the well being of this guy. So I apologize for saying what was rolling off my mind before talking to you directly about it.

But in the end, the truth is that neither one of us really know how this man will live and deal with his overseas experience if he chooses to do so. He may do well from the start or he may not. He may make it on a couple of hundred bucks to start, like we did, or he may find himself in tons of debt like you said. Who knows? I don't. We cannot make the decision for him. You gave him your opinion, which I noted as being honest. I gave him mine. He will have to make up his own mind.

I think we actually gave him to pretty thorough, thoughtful opinions that will be very helpful to him in the end. Now that he knows the possibilities of success and failure, he will make a more informed decision. And that is a good thing.

So, take care, both of you.

[daniel_hayes]

All advice is appreciated.

It seems I have some thinking to do. I will weigh up the positive and negatives and try to look at all angles. I often have one plan in the morning and another one by evening.

The way I see it, you just keep examining all options, running them through your head, making notes, reading books, using forums like this. Then, when time comes to act - for me another year - you can do so with strength.

[123Loto]

I like this thread - there's some good, measured advice from people with 2 different opinions. The OP has received good info.

Here are some numbers for the OP:

20 hours per week is 88 hours per month (a calendar month has 4 working weeks plus either 1,2 or 3 extra working days) @ $560/hour is $49280/m. Tax withholding rate is 20% so you're down to $40,000/m.

Rent will be $10,000/m in Taipei county, bills at $3000, leaving $27000/m to live on. That will be enough to live comfortably in Taipei County.

You will need to work more than 20 hours per week, however, because there would be preparation time and grading homework. Probably more like 30 hours/week.

Start up costs will depend on how lucky you get.

Rent start up will be $10000 first month's rent plus 2 month's rent bond equals $30000. (If you share it will be less or if you live in south Taiwan).

Second hand AC will be $4000, second hand fridge $4000, new mattress will be $2000 - possible to get a new frame for another $3000. Sofa set will be $10000 at IKEA. Desk will be $5000 at IKEA. Scooter will be $20000. Large new flat screen TV = $20,000 .

So total could be about $98000 (78000 if you don't need the TV). However, if you get into shared accommodation a lot of these costs can disappear. You don't necessarily need a scooter in Taipei County (you do down South I hear).

So as I said, the costs will depend on luck to a certain degree.

Good luck!

[forest1979]

Nevermind - Thanks for taking the time to clarify your position.

I genuinely appreciate your explanation of your position and prior comments. I concur with you that irrespective of whether we see eye to eye, or sit on the same fence, the OP has been given advice which can help straighten some issues that might presently be in his mind. My stance really centres on practical matters, but that is not to diminish what you say in any way. I think you've put forward plenty of extremely relevant points and I am sure the OP will be grateful.

[daniel_hayes]

Lots of valid advice in this thread.

Another query: where is the best place to get a Teaching Cert that would serve me well as regards Taiwan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Korea ... basically all of Asia. Also, CELTA or TEFL?

[mdp19742004]

Daniel...I've been looking into teaching part-time in Taiwan, too. I've been teaching ESL in California for about six years. State budget cuts have slashed the hours of all adult ed teachers, and I've always wanted to teach abroad and Taiwan sounds interesting, so...

My reason for wanting part-time is because I also teach classes online currently (I have a MFA) for a couple of online schools here in the States, and I'd like to keep that up to have multiple revenue streams.

My questions for anyone out there who might have information are...
1) Is high speed internet reliable?
2) Would the 20 hour a week (contract A) at Hess be a good option?

I want to have time to teach a couple of online classes, learn some Chinese, and perhaps do some cheap traveling in nearby countries.

Thanks so much to anyone that has any advice!

The Middle East is out for me since I'm gay. I'm not too keen on being beheaded or having to build a wall only to have it toppled on me!