Job Discussion Forums

Evan2009 · Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 41

This is primarily intended for John however others who have worked for a long time in KSA are invited to respond.

John, first of all I want to thank you for your posts which I find informed and thoughtful. If I understand correctly, you've been in Saudi Arabia for twenty odd years. Is that right? What motivated you to stay for so long?

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject:

19...

NCTBA

johnslat · Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:35 pm Post subject:

Dear Evan,
Thanks for your kind words.

"If I understand correctly, you've been in Saudi Arabia for twenty odd years."

Some corrections: I WAS in Saudi Arabia for a total of nineteen years (though some of them were very odd indeed) beginning in 1980 and taking my Final Exit in 2003 (as you can see, I took occasional short breaks in a vain effort to preserve my sanity.)
As my profile shows, I'm now in Santa Fe, New Mexico, where I've been living (and loving it) for almost the past six years
All my time in the Kingdom was spent working for the same employer: the Institute of Public Administration, the first four years in Jeddah, the remaining fifteen in Riyadh.
Now for the crucial part: what motivated me to stay so long?
First and foremost, the work - I enjoyed it a lot, liked the students (for the most part) and my colleagues (ditto), and the administration had the rare wisdom to leave us pretty much alone and let us do our jobs.
Then, of course, there was the money. By staying so long I was able to do some things I'd always wanted to: 1. Buy a house; 2. Help two good friends through school (one is now an M.D. specializing in Internal Medicine - he has a practice in Kentucky; the other changed her life by going back to school in her 50s after working many years as a Hospice nurse - she's now an archaeologist.); 3. Got to see just about every place in the world that I'd ever wanted to visit (with the exception - which I hope to remedy someday - of Antarctica.)
Also, there was the never-ending fascination of living in a culture so very different from what I was used to. Although admittedly, a fair amount of the initial attraction did wear off after a while, even after nineteen years I still was learning new and intriguing things.
Moreover, I'm a rather self-contained individual who has less need for social activities that most, I'd say. I certainly got a heck of a lot of reading done in the years before the Internet finally made it to Saudi.
Finally, there was one of the most under-rated elements that can influence human behavior: inertia. I had what I considered a good thing going, so why end it?
I think that about covers it, but I'll be interested in hearing from some others (scot47 Mia and Cleopatra leap to mind) should they be so inclined.
Regards,
John

P.S. HA! Sweet sufferin' succotash; NCTBA is correcting my bio before I can.

sheikh radlinrol · Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 1222 Location: Spain

johnslat · Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:57 pm Post subject:

Dear Sheik,

"Or maybe John was screwing loads of Saudi chicks."

Now that's a fowl supposition. But I don't kiss and tell.

Regards,
John

Wink

Evan2009 · Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 41

John, I'm curious: how do Americans react when they find out that you were in Saudi Arabia so long? And what motivates you to be so active on this board? Do you miss Saudi?

johnslat · Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 11:26 pm Post subject:

Dear Evan2009,
Well, sorry as I am to admit it, except for the rare few, most Americans I've run into display very little or no curiosity about my having been there.

But I did give classes (at the University of New Mexico, for Elderhostel, for a local group called RENESAN, for an LGT Community here called "Rainbow Village", and for a local Unitarian church) on both Islam and on Saudi Arabia that were very well attended. There were lots of good questions, but those kind of people have definitely been the exceptions.

Well, I did take a hiatus of about two years once I returned from the Kingdom - didn't even visit Dave's from June of '03 until sometime in '05.
But when I had some extra time, I found myself missing the boards, especially some of the "regulars" that I've gotten to know over the years.
Besides, I suppose that even though I've been gone for almost six years, I still might have some info that could be helpful to s few other posters.
Finally, as my wife will gladly testify, I've got a bad case of Netphilia.

I don't really miss Saudi - but I do miss many of the people I met there who became good friends of mine. And that includes a number of "locals" as well as "Western" ex-colleagues.
Regards,
John

Kipling · Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 11:43 pm Post subject: We are redeemed by love: Goethe

Ahhh Mr J it is very evident that you love people and you love life... not only a prerequisite for a happy life but the gates of heaven are more ajar for any such being. Smile

PS The Penguins down South will welcome you with open flippers. Very Happy

johnslat · Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:10 am Post subject:

Dear Kipling,
Why, thank you. And I get the distinct impression you are much the same.
One thing I forgot to mention above:
One reason I think I may still be able to offer helpful advice about Saudi is that things don't change too rapidly there (my entry for the Understatement of the Decade contest.)
I'm proud that it was I who coined the phrase "In a Riyadh minute."
We've all heard, of course, of "In a New York minute" which is meant to express an event's happening in an instant.
Well, a "Riyadh minute" is its exact opposite. When something happens in a "Riyadh minute", it means it takes weeks, months or even years to take place (if, indeed, ever.)
Regards,
John

redeyes · Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 254

John, you ( and a couple of the other regulars) have certainly helped me a great deal in researching Saudi.

Since we can't really get a lot of info about Saudi via the net, or in guide books, you and the other regulars have helped me immeasurably in planning my move.

Thanks again.

johnslat · Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 3:18 am Post subject:

Dear redeyes,
Thank you - it's good to know that our input has been of help to someone.
And that's really the main reason I remain active on this board. Well, that and the opportunity to exercise my rapier-like wit and mordant humor.
Regards,
John[/code]

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I first came to KSA in October 1970, and have now spent a quarter of my life in the Kingdom over the years. (70-72,90-91,96-02,03-09)

What I like in the Kingdom is the peace and quiet. What other people might see as a recipe for boredom can be an opportunity to do what you want to do.

Of course having a reasonable wedge of disposable income helps. Living rent-free is no bad thing. There is also the "lazybones" factor. When something in my place breaks down I pick up the phone and have a word with Maintenance who despatch someone to fix my problem ASAP.

Kipling · Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:27 am Post subject:

Mr Scot47

[quote ]and peace comes dropping slow/ I hear it in the morning/ I hear it in the deep hearts core: Yates Wine Lodge[ /quote]

So True. Amin
A reflective Mr K Question

Sheikh N Bake · Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 1307 Location: Dis ting of ours

The idea of living rent-free in Saudi as a perk of spending decades and decades there does not make sense to me. After six years in the Middle EAst I was able to pay off my house. Then, as a newly minted bachelor, I rented out the house for $1400 and the rental income enabled me to pay the rent in a semi-luxury apartment, and it also covers all the repairs and property taxes. In other words, living rent-free in the real world. Assuming one has a normal job in a community college (decent pay and benefits) in addition to living rent-free, why on earth would one want to go back to the Middle East? As if there is no such thing as a peaceful place in the US or UK? Come on, you know better than that. Even my part of the apartment complex is extremely quiet--and no mosque blarings either.

tillymd · Joined: 07 Apr 2009 Posts: 114

Dear John,

This is one of the most honest posts I have read, thank you. Sounds like overall you had a positive experience, and actually enjoyed learning about the culture.

It is encouraging to hear you made "local" friends. This forum often gives the impression of an "us and them" mentality. Why move to another country only to spend all your free time with other teachers?

I spent eight years abroad, mostly in Japan, and like you I don't really miss it. I do miss traveling, and ESL teaching definitely opens up the opportunity to travel during breaks. I would love to go to Egypt or India again. My Karma is such that I need to hike around Mount Kailash at least once.

My American friends and coworkers show little or no interest in my experiences. In fact, they have about a three minute attention span. I rarely, if ever, talk about my past. Maybe this is why I like this forum.

Thanks again for your posts, Tilly