Job Discussion Forums

[yaramaz]

They gave us algebra. And lots of other fun learning tools, like zero etc. They kept learning and science alive in mediaeval times when the Europeans were wallowing in their ignorance and filth.

Wolf, not only do I weigh the same as a duck, but I closely resemble a migratory (or non?) European swallow and and and...NI! NI! Nnnnnnni!

[bayabule]

OK this is slightly off the topic here, and would probably be better on the ME forum, but I'm curious.
A couple of weeks ago I saw an item on BBC2's Newsnight about Big Brother Middle East. They said it was being filmed Bahrain, I think, and had contestants from all over the ME and North africa. It had just started and muslim clerics were up in arms because some of the male and female contestants had shaken hands and exchanged kisses on the cheek when they first met. The item was discussing the possible reactions to the show in muslim countries, and also how they had adapted to format to try to fit in with local culture.
I live in a fairly moderate muslim country and would never have thought such a show would be possible even there.
I never saw any follow up about this so was just wondering if any of you had been watching it or heard any reactions to it where you live.

[bayabule]

Ahhh, sorry. Just did a search on BBC site and found the answers to my questions there. Should've done that first.
Apparently it was cancelled after about a week because of protests.
Apologies for sticking my oar in without the appropriate research.
Carry on.

[sidjameson]

Wasn't it the Arabs who invented all that cool stuff?
When I tell my students proudly that it was the British that invented football, maybe you're right and I should say it was the Christians.

Ahh even better, then that means it was the Christians who invented ecstacy. I always wondered why they looked soooo happy.

[yaramaz]

Yes, Sid, the Arabs invented those things... and those Arabs were usually Muslims. Islam was, um, invented in Arabia. Mohammed was an arab. The Quran was dictated in Arabic. Wasn't that what we were talking about? If I remember correctly, Islam advocates life long learning for both sexes. That is a splendid thing, I think. I think every religiomn has aspects that are distasteful to outsiders... however, living in a muslim country has shown me firsthand that Islam and the Quran can be interpreted in very different ways to very different ends. Like... well... any and every other religion. Even some Buddhist passages have disagreeable gender imbalances.

[Sara Avalon]

[johnslat]

Dear Sara Avalon,

Hmm, if all the "pseudo-Muslims" got together with all the pseudo-Christians, pseudo-Jews, pseudo-Buddhists, pseudo-etceteras, what's your estimate on that Grand Total?

Regards,
John

[dmb]

with regard to the Arabic Big brother. I read in the Gulf Times a couple of days ago that the producer of the show plans to find another country and carry on filming it

[Sara Avalon]

[johnslat]

Dear Sara Avalon,
Would you be referring to the Mahdi? If so, that belief is significant only among the Shia (about 15%) of Muslims, not the Sunni (approx. 85%). Also, could you give some reference for that figure of "300"; I've never seen it mentioned in any of my readings on the subject?
Regards,
John

[Sara Avalon]

[khmerhit]

Sunni disposition?

[johnslat]

Dear Sara Avalon,
What's my point? I guess it was trying to find out if you were referring to the Mahdi and where that figure of 300 came from. That's why I asked the questions.
But what I don't understand is your point about:

"If sunnis don't believe in the Imaam Mahdi, why do they put out texts that explain the falsehoods of his arrival (in Shia text) when they essentially don't believe in it? "

I mean, you seem to be saying that by refuting what they feel to be false beliefs, they are, in fact, admitting that belief. Maybe I'm missing something here, but that simply doesn't make any sense to me. The Sunni DO believe in the Mahdi, but in a way very different from the Shia. And I finally did find a refrence to a number close to yours:

"ONE OF HIS SPECIAL QUALITIES IS THAT HIS BIRTH WILL REMAIN A SECRET ; THE PEOPLE WILL NOT KNOW ABOUT IT. HIS PERSONALITY WILL REMAIN OBSCURE FROM THE PEOPLE. FROM THE ENDS OF THE WORLD PEOPLE TO THE EXTENT OF THE NUMBER OF FIGHTERS IN BADR I.E. 313 WILL ASSEMBLE ROUND HIM -- -- -- -- WHEN 313 SINCERE SHIA FOLLOWERS WILL BE GETHERED, ALMIGHTY ALLAH WILL IN-EARTH HIS AFFAIRS I.E. IMAM MAHDI WILL COME OUT OF HIS CAVE AND EMBARK ON HIS MISSION." (p. 230)

THE POINT TO PONDER FOR THE SHIAS IS THAT SO FAR 1150 YEARS HAVE ELAPSED SINCE THE DISAPPEARANCE OF IMAM GHAIB IN 260 H AND EVEN NOW THE NUMBER OF SINCERE SHIA FOLLOWERS WHO COULD STAND BY WITH IMAM MAHDI HAVE NOT REACHED 313 OTHERWISE HE WOULD HAVE MADE HIS APPEARANCE IN THIS WORLD. WE DO NOT KNOW HOW KHOMENI AND OTHER SHIA HIGH PRIESTS SOLVE THIS ENGIMA OR EXPLAIN THIS MYSTERY.

THE ISLAMIC CONCEPTION OF IMAM MAHDI IS THAT HE WILL APPEAR TOWARDS THE END OF THIS WORLD BEFORE THE DESCENT OF JESUS WHEN THE UMMAH WILL BE PASSING THROUGH A PERIOD OF GREAT TRIAL AND TRIBULATIONS NEAR THE APPROACH OF QIYAMAH (LAST HOUR). AS LEADER OF THE MUSLIMS, IMAM MAHDI WOULD ESTABLISH AND CONSOLIDATE THE GOLDEN ERA OF ISLAM. THAT WOULD BE THE ERA OF PEACE, TRANQUILTIY AND PLENTY.

OUR STuDY HAS CONCLUSIVELY ESTABLISHED THAT THE DIFFERENCES IN BELIEF BETWEEN THE SHIAS AND AHLE-SUNNAH IN REGARDS TO IMAM MAHDI AS WELL AS OTHER FUNDAMENTALS OF DEEN ARE SO GLARING, SO SERIOUS AND SO WIDE THAT THE GAP BETWEEN THEM AND US CAN NEVER BE BRIDGED. WE ARE OPPOSITE POLES. THE GAP IS UNBRIDGEABLE. THERE IS NOTHING IN COMMON BETWEEN US. IS DEVOLVES UPON THE ULAMA OF THE AHLE-SUNNAH TO EXPOSE THE NEXIOUS AND ANTI-ISLAMIC BELIEFS AND TEACHINGS OF SHIAISM SO THAT MUSLIMS ARE NOT DELUDED INTO SUPPORTING THE POLICIES AND PROGRAMMES OF KHOMENI WHICH HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ESTABLISHING THE RULE OF SHARI'AH OR PROMOTING MUSLIM UNITY AND ARE ONLY AIMED AT DENUDING THEIR IMAN (FAITH) OF THE LUSTRE AND NOOR WHICH AMANATES FROM FOLLOWING THE EXAMPLE OF RASUL-ALLAH (SAW). THE TRUTH OF SHIAISM MUST BE PLAINLY TOLD AND ITS PERNICIOUS TEACHINGS EXPOSED SO THAT THE SHI'I PROPAGANDA EMERGING FROM TEHRAN BE EFFECTIVELY COUNTERED IN THE INTEREST OF THE IMAN OF THE RANK AND FILE OF THE AHLE SUNNAH WAL JAMAT."

and

"The majority of Christians and Jews are familiar with the messianic notions of their respective religions: Christians are awaiting the return of Jesus Christ, and Jews are awaiting a messiah who Christians believe Jesus was in his initial advent. The majority of Christians and Jews, however, are not aware that the third Abrahamic religion, Islam, also largely subscribes to belief in a messianic figure. The Mahdi is Islam�s main messianic figure. Al-Mahdi, �the rightly guided one�, [1] is widely believed to be the name of an �eschatological figure whose presence will usher in an era of justice and true belief prior to the end of time.�[2] Importantly, the word al-Mahdi[3] never actually appears in the Qur�an, Islam�s main religious text, the passive of its Arabic stem appearing only four times. Support for the Mahdi finds itself completely within hadith, records of the traditions or sayings of Muhammad.[4] While Sunni and Shii Muslims have their own hadith collections�their respective collections reflecting their respective beliefs�some overlap exists.[5] Although the Qur�an does not mention the Mahdi explicitly, the Qur�an does emphasize that the Day of Judgment is near, a day when, among other things, there will be great earthquakes, the sky will roll up, the dead will rise, the forces of evil will be conquered, and all people will bow before God.[6] The Mahdi is closely associated with the Day of Judgment and related eschatological concepts.

Belief in the Mahdi is not found amongst all Muslims. An array of beliefs about the Mahdi�s role and identity developed throughout the divergent sects of Islam over time. Despite the support of Mahdism amongst most Shii Muslim, for example, it never became an essential part of Sunni religious doctrine.[7] In the Islamic world, the Shii are the minority, Sunni Muslims comprising eighty-five percent of the Muslim population.[8] What follows is an account of the formation of the divergent groups within Islam and the characteristics of those groups, a description of each group�s respective belief in the Mahdi, and a brief analysis of the factors that contributed to those beliefs."

The remainder of this can be found at:

http://web.wm.edu/so/monitor/spring2001/paper2.htm


Regards,
John

P.S. I can still recall, being told many years ago by a Southern Baptist young lady that the Roman Catholic Church was the "W h o r e of Babylon" and that I, as I was a Catholic at that time, was doomed to hellfire.

[khmerhit]

Hellfire and d-am-m-n-A-t-i-on!!

[johnslat]

Dear khmerhit,
Well, since I'm no longer a practicing Catholic, perhaps that means I can escape perdition. But you know, I think most religions have more antipathy for those they consider to be "heretics" than for those they call "infidels" - maybe because there's more sense of "competition" involved.
Regards,
John