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Yes Sir I Can Bogey
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 201
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 Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| eddy-cool wrote: |
| It really seldom matterswhether youarea certified teacher here.Come to think of it:Wheredo theycertify 'oral English teachers'? |
Looks like you are writing Sanskrit there! Anyway, I suppose a CELTA or equivalent would go someway towards making someone a certified oral English teacher of sorts. |
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evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Some communication degrees deal with Oral English....BAs |
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Pelican_Wrath
Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:35 am Post subject: Re: certified teachers |
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| Robin53 wrote: |
In China, my current salary at a university is 3,200 RMB a month. My teacher certification has no meaning in this country and does not bring any financial or other benefits. I've been teaching here for more than 4 years. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't happy though and enjoy my job. I am professionally satisfied. All my certificate means is that I've been well trained to do my job. |
And you can't find a job at an international school in China which uses the same syllabus which you were trained in? |
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Robin53
Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 74
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 9:36 am Post subject: certified teachers |
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I'm not looking for a job in an international school Pelican. Did I say that? I'm happy where I am in a remote province at an ordinary government university in a city where I have good social networks and feel at home. I also like the 3 months of paid holidays I get, the annual return airfare money, and the low, at 16 classes a week, teaching hours I have. Relationships with my waiban, the academic staff in my department, and my students are all excellent. I would not wish to trade any of that for more money at an international school. Furthermore, should I wish to work in an international school, so many commercial education operations in China call themselves an "international school" that the description is in itself a warning signal to stay away.
As for your question about changing location to work in an international school because the syllabus would be the same as what I was trained in the answer is no, that would not be a good reason to move. A syllabus or curriculum is just a framework or structure of course-content and delivery methods. The only syllabus I currently have is how the chapters are outlined in the textbook. It is not a big problem for me coping without the sort of syllabus or curriculum one would find in a western school. |
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eddy-cool
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Posts: 1008
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Yes Sir I Can Bogey wrote: |
| eddy-cool wrote: |
| It really seldom matterswhether youarea certified teacher here.Come to think of it:Wheredo theycertify 'oral English teachers'? |
Looks like you are writing Sanskrit there! Anyway, I suppose a CELTA or equivalent would go someway towards making someone a certified oral English teacher of sorts. |
Your Sanskrit reading ability is great, man - better than mine. I thought I was writing plain English albeit with a space key that is a little lazy since my recent yogurt acciden while browsing on the Internet.
Frankly, a CELTA isn't worth much in the teachingfield, or is it? Yes, I recognise it is better than a TEFL cert, but how much better? |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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This bears repeating I think:
From our very own Xiao51 (who doesn't know me, so he said):
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| But truthfully, what I have of seen of some of the "certified" expat teachers in this country makes me...and the students...and the student's parents cringe...one "certified" (aka foreign teacher) would throw desks at the students in fits of rage...and was not sacked...and the same teacher would throw books at the small children in fits of rage...and break their pencils in front of them, etc., etc. When one Chinese student REFUSED to take an English name, this lout said that the little child's name would be "ass" and proceeded to call him like this until the parents intervened with the local Education Bureau..and it just goes on and on...so please, Robin, yes, I agree with you about the professionalism of the Chinese teachers. |
From our newly joined "StephanieB" (whom I don't know either):
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=71918
and from the link she provides within the posting:
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I actually witnessed desks being thrown at children, books being thrown at children, children's pencils flung across the room in anger, pencils being broken and snapped at children and children who were picked up by the collars of their shirts and flung across the room. |
Two random "observances" by two obviously different people (one male, one female; one who doesn't even know where Suzhou is, one who does). Makes one want to go HMMMMMMM . . . . |
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Raindrops
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 142
Location: PRC
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| eddy-cool wrote: |
Frankly, a CELTA isn't worth much in the teachingfield, or is it? Yes, I recognise it is better than a TEFL cert, but how much better? |
The business delivering a CELTA gets mucho mas pesos ...  |
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SandyG20
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 5:15 am Post subject: |
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I am a certified teacher and it is very competitive to get a job at a real International school - I mean one that teaches all subjects - just like the public schools in the USA.
Most jobs I see listed on Daves pay 5000 to 6000 rmb with some perks - sometimes housing, air fare and so on.
That salary seems to be the average pay scale.
If anyone can steer me in another direction I haven't looked online let me know.
I have been to all the real International school sites - and they all require in person interviews or going to job fairs - and are very very competitive to get.
Hey and if Robin is happy that is the main thing! |
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StephanieB
Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Paris, France / Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:43 am Post subject: ... |
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| kev7161 wrote: |
This bears repeating I think:
From our very own Xiao51 (who doesn't know me, so he said):
| Quote: |
| But truthfully, what I have of seen of some of the "certified" expat teachers in this country makes me...and the students...and the student's parents cringe...one "certified" (aka foreign teacher) would throw desks at the students in fits of rage...and was not sacked...and the same teacher would throw books at the small children in fits of rage...and break their pencils in front of them, etc., etc. When one Chinese student REFUSED to take an English name, this lout said that the little child's name would be "ass" and proceeded to call him like this until the parents intervened with the local Education Bureau..and it just goes on and on...so please, Robin, yes, I agree with you about the professionalism of the Chinese teachers. |
From our newly joined "StephanieB" (whom I don't know either):
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=71918
and from the link she provides within the posting:
| Quote: |
I actually witnessed desks being thrown at children, books being thrown at children, children's pencils flung across the room in anger, pencils being broken and snapped at children and children who were picked up by the collars of their shirts and flung across the room. |
Two random "observances" by two obviously different people (one male, one female; one who doesn't even know where Suzhou is, one who does). Makes one want to go HMMMMMMM . . . . |
Not random in so far as this behaviour is notoriously famous. I witnessed it and so, so, so many of the posters on all of the other threads where this school has been called into serious question have also witnessed.
Now let's see...let's think American television for a minute. If this were a Perry Mason show and two persons, of different stature, sex, and identity, of different geographic locations, who visibly do not know each other and have never met, are relating, or have seen, or have been witness to the same series of incidents or crimes, what would a Perry Mason jury say of the alleged perpetrator? Flagrante delicto.
As for not knowing the poster Kev7161, I must claim that this is a comment that I would never make. As we say in French, 'J'ai eu le tres, tres grand malheur de rencontrer ce Monsieur-la" late last year, "en chair et en os" (in the flesh and with all the bones). So, I am sorry to say but this number is pegged with acuity and probity.
Whereas in the past I was bullied and reduced to tears and moral distress, this will no longer happen. I have learned to fight my battles, as I should, and to battle with ogres and bullies.
As for whom the other poster is or may be, I have now idea at all. Aucune. |
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evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| If this were a Perry Mason show and two persons |
Ironsides was a better detective.... |
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olabueno
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 80
Location: Tampa
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: certified teachers |
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| Robin53 wrote: |
Thanks for all the comments. No, I'm not a troll (check out my replies in various other topics), and my story is true. I've worked twice in China on contracts which paid a lot more, but prefer the state schools. I've mainly worked in high-schools in China, and am a trained, certified high-school teacher in my own country. In the jobs where I worked here on good salaries ( one was a year's contract on 7,500 almost 5 years ago, and the other was a six month contract on 9000 minus tax last year) what turned me off was the high stress levels. I was the meat in the sandwich. The bottom part of the sandwich were the expectations of parents (and some of their spoiled brat children) who had paid whopping fees to have western education. The top part of the sandwich was the layer of Chinese management staff who didn't understand the curriculum but behaved like control freaks or little Hitlers in trying to get me to jump through various hoops and otherwise interfere in teaching processes which they did not understand.
The remainder of my time in China at a college and a high-school, and now at a university have been stress-free. These place are more akin to what I'm used to in my own country. Once I've been observed teaching a few times by Chinese English teachers, and once I've ironed out any difficulties with classes by administering my own teacher-assessment with my students (they don't have to sign their names on the feedback form I give them to get a more honest response) then I'm left alone to get on with the job of teaching. Thats why its professionally satisfying for me as a certified teacher - I get recognised as a competent teacher in the state schools, but not in the commercial operations. The downside is the low salary, but thats a whole different topic, and I accept the status quo. |
Is it so hard to believe Robin? I'm also certified w/ five years exp. It baffles me how many posters on here are simply interested in making money and/or salary. If you want to make top dollar in this field, stay home. Plus, I imagine many cert. teachers come over for a year and take a leave of absence from their teaching post back home; so money is not a deciding factor.
As far as getting hired at an international school (at least a reputable IB/AP World school) the market has been squeezed considerably. I've been trying to find a spot at an IB/AP IS for quite some time, nothing yet. Note, there is a HUGE gap between an "international school" and a true IB World IS. I chose to work for a university over an "international school" for many reasons. First, I only work 18-22 hours per week rather than 40+ at an IS. Also, I get two (paid) months off (during the middle of my contract) to travel. My uni. is also located in a small NE town w/ easy access to Korea, Russia, Mongolia, etc.
Plus, I can tutor on my downtime b/c I only work 20 hrs. |
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