Job Discussion Forums

jjdon · Joined: 15 May 2009 Posts: 7 Location: Ireland

Hi All,

I am hoping I can get some clear advice from you. I am considering enrolling in a CELTA course if they will have me.

But first I need to know if I am wasting my time. I do not have any degrees so if I travel to South America or Asia will this be a big problem for me?
More to the point, is it even possible to get into a celta course without a degree? I know in Ireland it seems you need a degree, but an awful lot of schools around the world don't mention this requirement on their websites.

It is very frustrating to discover that a person with a degree in economics for instance, and very little teaching talent, is considered more suitable to teach English than a person with a great talent for teaching but no degree.
It would seem to me that teacher training courses should offer grades that would more clearly represent the ability of the teacher.

What are you views on this?

John

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject:

You'll want to do some checking country by country. In some places, it's a requirement to get a visa. Others, they're more flexible.

Most TESOL courses recommend but don't require a degree- but it's down to the center. Same for CELTA.

Best,
Justin

jjdon · Joined: 15 May 2009 Posts: 7 Location: Ireland

Thanks Justin.

I understand a degree is a requirement for a visa in many countries. Presuming a visa is not a problem, does a degree really make a difference when applying for a job? Is it difficult to get a job without one?

Also, I don't see anyone else talking about this really, so am I right to assume that it is taken for granted that most people here have some sort of degree?

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

COme to Peru, if you have a pulse, are willing to work under the table and for 6 to 10 usd an hour, there are places that will hire you

justcolleen · Joined: 07 Jan 2004 Posts: 654 Location: Egypt, baby!

Egypt would take you, too.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

A degree is not a legal requirement to work in most European countries. I see you're from Ireland, so the EU is an option for you.

That said, yes, most newbies on the job market do have one - but you can offset that to some extent with a good certification (CELTA is obviously the name brand) and a professional, reliable appearance and approach to the job.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

There have been a number of discussions on this topic in the past ... infact it seems to be one of those themes that keeps popping up! I dont have my degree (yet - finish it October this year) but I have been working in EFL for the last few years without one. Im not the only one working degree-less either.

I have only worked in the UK and China, but I have looked at jobs elsewhere and my lack of degree didnt seem a problem. Russia and Poland are two countries I have considered, but I have decided to head back to China later this year. I believe one should have a degree for a legal working visa in China, but its a strange country with different rules from province to province. Whilst the boards (rightly) warn against working anywhere with the wrong visa ... there are 1000s of people in China working quite happily on business visa's. I have been one of them, and I will be again.

China is a possibility for you ... and it may still be possible to get the right visa regardless of qualifications. I have a friend in Hainan who is teaching on a work visa and he has no qualifications at all, and had no experience either. I have another friend in Beijing who has some experience, but no qualifications, and he is on a Z visa too. Like I say, China is strange.

I did look into other Asian countries ... it was my understanding that Vietnam and Thailand are definately out. I could be wrong, so it might be wise to check the individual forums for those countries ... My impression is that they are far less tolerant of people working on tourist visa, possibly due to the 'Gary Glitter effect'.

And a final note ... I agree entirely about the Degree. It doesnt make you a better teacher ... and I have worked with and met some terrible teachers, some even hold a PGCE / QTS and are teachers back here in England. What I do accept though, and this is the same for any employment really, that if I apply for a job and someone else applies with a similar record of experience, but a better record academically .... I am going to be at a disadvantage. Another thing to consider is education may be regarded differently in other countries and cultures. With a university education being so highly regarded in China, it is quite understandable that students and parents, often paying high fees, want to be educated by people who are educated themselves, and who has previously shown a commitment to academia.

Being a native speaker may help, but it isnt as simple as that. Speaking the language doesnt mean you can teach it. For some students in some countries, the English language may be a passport to a better life for them and their families (sounds a bit dramatic but true), they do deserve committed and educated teachers, rather than people who have come out of call centres and want to travel and teach, just because they can speak English.

Nothing wrong with call centres of course, I have worked in one myself Laughing

It might be worth reading some of the many threads on TEFL courses too!

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:25 pm Post subject:

MOst of Latin America doesn't strictly have a degree requirement. But you'll want to check country by country.

A lot of us here have had an "untraditional" educational background... the degree question comes up with some frequency...

Saludos,
Justin

jjdon · Joined: 15 May 2009 Posts: 7 Location: Ireland

Thank you all, especially Nickpellett for your detailed response.

I should have made it clear that I do respect the right of English students to receive the best quality education possible. If I decide to teach I will take a celta course and do my best to live up to students expectations as I'm sure most people on this site do.

That said, I will be 40 very soon and am looking for a new direction in life. I did attend college for 2 years (accountancy) but dropped out when I realised I had no interest in accounting. I have spent 20 years trying to decide what I want to be when I grow up Smile

At this stage I have decided to take a chance and follow my passions, which is foreign cultures. Maybe I would make a crap teacher, and if so I will accept that and quit. But I need to try first. I have always been complimented by immigrants to Ireland for having the patience to talk to them and listen when they are struggling with the language and have ,made some great friends as a result.
I will need to brush up on my grammar though.

Congratulations and thanks to anyone who has managed to read through this self indulgent post.

John

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

I was 40 last month, and so have followed a similar path as you are planning. I finish my degree this year...but I only started it when I went to China. Id read enough here, and knew from other sources, that the degree was the way to go to give me a greater chance and more options in EFL.

Dont want to give you too much to think about ... but it is likely you will have time on your hands in EFL, might be wise to use it to embark on a program of distance learning?

Good luck ... I have to say ... I think its a great life. Even when its goes badly, its still 100 times better than other jobs I have had.

jjdon · Joined: 15 May 2009 Posts: 7 Location: Ireland

Hi Nick,

thanks for the encouragement, it is easy to lose confidence reading some of the posts here. Some are so disheartening it makes me wonder why some people are doing this job at all. But saying that, most are extremely helpful.

Are you doing a distance degree? And if so how long does it take? It is definitely something would like to do in the future if everything works out.

John

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

Im doing my studies with the Open University, and (touch wood) will have my BA (open) completed in October. Their full course modules take 9 months each, and a basic degree takes 5 courses, an honours degree 6 courses.

If you did two course a year, then you can complete an honours degree in 3 years, the same time as in a traditional University. If you think its something you might like to do ... I would say look into it now...not the future.

When I was in China, I typically worked for about 12 hours a week, and I lived on campus so didnt have to travel to/from class, I had time and used it to study. I completed two courses whilst in China.

I have no plans to go back to my old life ... EFL is the way forward for me now ... improving my qualification has to be part of that really. If by some miracle I decide to grow up, settle down and do all the things that may make my EFL adventures impossible ... at least I will have skills and qualifications that may be transferrable to something else...

In terms of studying .... theres no time like the present IMO!

Prof.Gringo · Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:33 am Post subject: Mexico

You can get a job in Mexico.

You don't need a degree.

A TEFL helps.

There are TEFL schools here in Mexico where you can get your TEFL and you don't a degree.

The pay is kinda low. About 800 USD per month for full time. That depends of course on where you work and what you do.

In Mexico City there are jobs. You don't need a degree or even a TEFL in many cases.

Take a look at the Mexico forum.