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Yemen
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lotsa



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 68
Location: Oman

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Neil for the "on the ground" background, it always helps in these forums to have the facts put out there by someone who has both a clue of what they are talking about and the personal experience to be able to refer to. Smile
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Yemen Reply with quote

Neil McBeath wrote:
Despite what VS alleges, there were NEVER "regular border skirmishes with Yemen" and until 1990, that would have meant the Peoples Democratic Republic of South Yemen.

Interestingly that does not agree with a number of books on Oman that I've read and ex-military personnel, both British and Omani, that I have spoken with. But, I suppose that all the books could be wrong and the military personnel could be liars. One just never knows... Rolling Eyes

Of course, this was before 1981...

VS
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Neil McBeath,

" . . . there were NEVER "regular border skirmishes with Yemen"

The Columbia Encyclopedia, it would seem then, is misinformed:

"Following independence border disputes arose with Oman and the Yemen Arab Republic, some of which led to armed clashes. An accord was signed with the Yemen Arab Republic in 1972 calling for the end of fighting and the merger of the two countries. However, the agreement was not to be implemented for several years. In Apr., 1972, the government of Southern Yemen suffered a severe blow when 25 of its top officials were killed in an airplane crash. Rubayi Ali was ousted in June, 1978, by Abdalfattah Ismail, a radical rival who in 1979 signed a 20-year relation treaty with the Soviet Union. Soviet influence, including the presence of naval bases, became predominant in Southern Yemen, which was the Arab world's only Marxist state. Fighting with Northern Yemen again broke out in Feb., 1979, but was resolved one month later by a peace treaty."


http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Yemen.aspx

As is, apparently, the Britannica Concise Encyclopedia

http://www.answers.com/topic/yemen

which only goes to show, I suppose, that you can't trust everything you read - even from supposedly reputable sources.

Regards,
John
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helenl



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 1202

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know previous to 1991 but PDO has had several "skirmishes" with Yemeni enthusiasts since that time - on their well heads close to the border.
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Geronimo



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Relations between Dhofar and Mahrah appear
to be quite cordial in June 2009 according
to a report today from
the Yemen News Agency website:-

http://www.sabanews.net/en/news185874.htm

Dear Johnslat,

I pursued the links and references that you supplied with interest, but I was unable to find any reports of a period of "regular border skirmishes" between Dhofar and Mahrah anywhere. What did I miss?

Can you supply a direct quote from a source - reputable or otherwise-
that contradicts Neil McBeath's claim?

The quote that you supplied earlier refers to relations between the
People�s Democratic Republic of Yemen on the one side; and Oman and the Yemen Arab Republic on the other side.

"Britain accelerated its withdrawal, and Southern Yemen became independent in Nov., 1967, with Qahtan al-Shaabi of the NLF the first president. In June, 1969, he resigned, and was succeeded by Rubayi Ali. In 1970 the country received a new constitution and was renamed the People�s Democratic Republic of Yemen.
Following independence border disputes arose with Oman and the Yemen Arab Republic, some of which led to armed clashes. An accord was signed with the Yemen Arab Republic in 1972 calling for the end of fighting and the merger of the two countries."

As I'm sure you will concede, this quote does not present any evidence of "regular skirmishes" on the Dhofar border.


Regards,

Geronimo
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Geronimo,

"Following independence border disputes arose with Oman and the Yemen Arab Republic, some of which led to armed clashes."

Since this doesn't seem to accord with your idea of "regular border skirmishes", I guess I'll have to ask you to define your meanings of

"regular" and "border skirmishes."

I'm assuming that "regular" doesn't mean "scheduled to occur at precisely defined intervals."

Regards,
John

P.S. Moreover, you seem to also assume that I'm "contradicting" Mr. McBeath's claim. Did you read my last sentence?

" . . . which only goes to show, I suppose, that you can't trust everything you read - even from supposedly reputable sources."
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Geronimo



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Johnslat,

The definition of 'regular' that I had in mind was along the lines of:-
"regular (EVEN)
adjective
1 existing or happening repeatedly in a fixed pattern, with equal or similar amounts of space or time between one and the next; even:
Her heartbeat was regular.
The gardeners planted the trees at regular intervals.
I suggest that we have regular meetings/meet on a regular basis."

or

"regular (OFTEN)
adjective
happening or doing something often:
a regular customer/churchgoer/reader/user
Top footballers make regular appearances on TV."

[Source: Cambridge online dictionary]


Regards,

Geronimo.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Geronimo,
Well, based on my experience of the Middle East, I doubt there was any "fixed pattern, with equal amounts of space or time between one and the next."
and with "happening or doing something often" we're back to the problem of define "often."
Were there border skirmishes/armed clashes? That depends on whether you trust the sources mentioned. And, as I stated, " . . . you can't trust everything you read - even from supposedly reputable sources."
Regards,
John
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Neil McBeath



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 277
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:21 am    Post subject: Yemen Reply with quote

This thread was started by someone who wanted information about the CURRENT situation vis-a-vis Oman and Yemen.

With all due respect to the archival researches of John Slatterty and the omnipresent VS, information that predates 1981 hardly answers that question.

Everybody knows that from 1970 to 1975 the Sultan's Armed Forces fought against a Marxist insurgency in Dhofar, and that the insurgents were aided and supplied by the government of the then People's Democratic Republic of South Yemen. On 11th December 1975, His Majesty the Sultan was informed that the emergency was over, and that Dhofar was now secured for civil development.

The poiint is, however, that there then were TWO states called Yemen - the Republic of Yemen (capital Sana'a) and the People's Democratic Republic of Yemen (capital Aden).

Since then things have changed. The two Yemens united in 1990 and the capital is now Sana'a. Since that time there have been disturbances within Yemen itself and it is probably fair to suggest that the remit of the central government has never been particularly strong.

Relations between Oman and Yemen, however, are cordial. The frontier between Yemen and Oman has been agreed, and as far back as October 1993 a border post was established at Mayouna. At the same time, it was announced that a free-trade zone and a new town would be established at the same site. There are a number of travellers' blogs which suggest that crossing the Oman-Yemen border is an interesting, but painless experience.

Johnm Slatterty and VS are talking about a state that no longer exists. The People's Democratic Republic of South Yemen has passed, like so many other client states of the USSR, into history.
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Beachee



Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 22
Location: Beachee head

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smuggling infected goats - ha ha, since when?? Salalah is famous for its goats and they are priced according to colour. If a Salalah goat is not available, the next choice would be a Somalian goat.
Smuggling is carried out, yes. Mainly weapons, cars and occasionally qat, although most Dhofaris prefer to go to Yemen for a qat weekend than chew it in Salalah.

Mazyouna free trade zone still has the buildings but has actually closed down and has been closed for quite a few years - it never took off and was never successful or profitable.

There have been 'skirmishes' between Yemenis and residents of Mazyouna fairly recently - most of these incidents were actually tribal based though. Except for one which involved the border police and some local Mazyouna boys.

As for the general situation now - yes there are some occurrences in Yemen. However, these are 'normal' occurrences and do not affect Oman in any way. That answers the question originally asked, and it is answered by someone who actually lives in Dhofar - not in another part of Oman.

Now can we close this post as it is not related to English / TEFL and is not actually going anywhere.
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Neil McBeath



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 277
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:35 am    Post subject: Yemen Reply with quote

Beachee,

Thank you sooo much. Your sarcasm is almost as charmless as that of another poster on these fora, but you, at least have the advantage of being in country, and not in retirement.

My information about the goats came from a member the ROP. He was stationed at the Mayzouna post until last year and there was considerable concern about the spread of disease from Yemeni to Omani livestock. Understandable really.

If you have a problem with the relevance of these postings, you might like to contact the moderators. Or stop reading this thread.
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jdl



Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 632
Location: cyberspace

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

North-South-West! Goats seem to be a smaller worry in relation to the tensions surrounding Oman; although, an agricultural incident could have grave economic implications especially in Dhofar. Will the recent happenings in Iran have any impact upon the marine patrol activity in Oman's North-west? It is a narrow straight. The reporting in the local daily papers is very sketchy although Al Jazeera is quite frank. Analysis anyone? Implications for Oman.

It would seem that peace and stability are always a concern, even for ESL employees, with Oman managing this in a civil manner more readily than most gulf states, to the point where security and peace are taken so much for granted with the assumption that no one is regularly 'checking' the fences or even concerned about security. I doubt that Oman is as isolationist as has been suggested but rather is extremely skilled in the exercise of balance in international affairs. Good fences make good neighbours...and always time for backyard talks over the fences between neighbours?
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Beaches,
I think you got Mr. McBeath's goat.
Regards,
John
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lotsa



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 68
Location: Oman

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdl wrote:
Good fences make good neighbours...and always time for backyard talks over the fences between neighbours?


I was wondering if it was a coincidence that the Sultan had plans to pay an official visit to Iran. Anyone that knows anything about HM will know that since he became the Sultan he has worked hard to build alliances and good relationships not just with close neighbours but with those a little bit further afield. Oman has probably got one of the best relationships with Iran by comparison with the other Gulf countries.

I don't feel any particular cause for concern regarding recent events in Iran and this feeling has been echoed by many of my Omani friends. Things could of course change if the situation gets completely out of hand and a mass migration occurs across the Strait!
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Beachee



Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 22
Location: Beachee head

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnslat - indeed, i think i did. Oh well, that is how the cookie crumbles.
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