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skunksounds
Joined: 13 May 2009
Posts: 10
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 Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:19 pm Post subject: Which languange to learn??? |
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I was just wondering if there was one language in particular that is spoken mostly throughout Indonesia? I have done some limited research and it seems that there are just a ton of different languages spoken in the area. If I was to take the time to learn ONE of them before moving, which language would be the most beneficial??
Thanks! |
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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Which languange to learn??? |
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| skunksounds wrote: |
I was just wondering if there was one language in particular that is spoken mostly throughout Indonesia? I have done some limited research and it seems that there are just a ton of different languages spoken in the area. If I was to take the time to learn ONE of them before moving, which language would be the most beneficial??
Thanks! |
The national language is called Bahasa Indonesia. http://indonesia.elga.net.id/bahasa.html |
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jhemmila
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Batam, Indonesia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:53 am Post subject: Re: Which languange to learn??? |
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| skunksounds wrote: |
I was just wondering if there was one language in particular that is spoken mostly throughout Indonesia? I have done some limited research and it seems that there are just a ton of different languages spoken in the area. If I was to take the time to learn ONE of them before moving, which language would be the most beneficial??
Thanks! |
Yes, you will find that in all but the most remote places, everyone speaks bahasa, plus one or 2 other languages. Where I am, in Batam, everyone speaks bahasa, and either hokkien, or teochew, plus a bit of mandarin.
There are a lot of resources for learning bahasa, but almost none for any of the regional dialects or traditional languages, most of which are being lost as the country becomes more modernized. All business is conducted in bahasa, so you'll find that all children learn bahasa in school, and use their traditional language at home. |
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Atoms for Peace
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 135
Location: NKRI
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: Re: Which languange to learn??? |
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Er yes, and the national language of German is Deutsch and the national language of France is Fran�ais. "Bahasa" means 'language', so unsurprisingly many people speak it.
The English ('bahasa Inggris') word for the language they speak here is 'Indonesian'. |
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Vertumnus
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Indonesia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Which languange to learn??? |
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| Atoms for Peace wrote: |
Er yes, and the national language of German is Deutsch and the national language of France is Fran�ais. "Bahasa" means 'language', so unsurprisingly many people speak it.
The English ('bahasa Inggris') word for the language they speak here is 'Indonesian'. |
Which is more objectionable? Chancellor mixing "Bahasa Indonesia" into his English, or jhemmila writing "bahasa" in an English sentence? I vote for the latter, myself. Many Indonesians object to using that word that way, since it doesn't even mean a specific language. I'm a cheeky devil, aren't I? 
I, personally, cannot stand when an English-speaking school refers to their Indonesian classes as Bahasa Indonesia instead of Indonesian. In the US, are language classes referred to by their native name (Francais, Deutsch, etc.)? I think not.
Then there's the use of Ms. for every female. And calling every teacher "Miss" (a mis-pronunciation of Ms.) and "Mister" without using their name. Argh!
Skunksounds: Indonesian is the language you need to learn, my pungent friend. There are no other universal languages in this country - although English is gaining ground in some areas.
-D |
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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Which languange to learn??? |
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| Vertumnus wrote: |
| Atoms for Peace wrote: |
Er yes, and the national language of German is Deutsch and the national language of France is Fran�ais. "Bahasa" means 'language', so unsurprisingly many people speak it.
The English ('bahasa Inggris') word for the language they speak here is 'Indonesian'. |
Which is more objectionable? Chancellor mixing "Bahasa Indonesia" into his English |
I did it intentionally to differentiate the national/official language of Indonesia from the various tribal/regional languages that are, technically "Indonesian" since they are all indigenous to Indonesia.
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| Then there's the use of Ms. for every female. And calling every teacher "Miss" (a mis-pronunciation of Ms.) and "Mister" without using their name. Argh! |
The equivalent of "Ma'am" or "Sir" in the US? |
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jhemmila
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Batam, Indonesia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:46 am Post subject: Re: Which languange to learn??? |
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| Quote: |
Which is more objectionable? Chancellor mixing "Bahasa Indonesia" into his English, or jhemmila writing "bahasa" in an English sentence? I vote for the latter, myself. Many Indonesians object to using that word that way, since it doesn't even mean a specific language. I'm a cheeky devil, aren't I?
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That's funny, most Indonesians ask me, "Meester, you can speak Indonesia?" |
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Jati
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 155
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:32 am Post subject: |
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Bahasa Indonesia (BI) and Bahasa Malaysia (BM), the national languages of Indonesia and Malaysia, respectively, are both based upon the Malay language, or Bahasa Melayu, to be linguistically correct.
Although the Malays are not the largest ethnic group in Indonesia (main roots in Riau), their language was the trade language at the time the Portuguese, Dutch, and British were playing empire-building. Thus, it was adopted by the colonial masters and carried over into independence. The Malays traditionally live along the sea coast and estuaries, and thus, became the point of contact for traders.
BI and BM are around 60-70% cognate, I am told (by linguists), which means that there is around 60-70% overlap in the use of words. Still, it is not 100%, and can be quite humorous discovering words that have entirely different meanings depending upon the language.
Indonesian movies are quite popular here in Malaysia, and it is easy to follow the plot just knowing BM. |
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Jati
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 155
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Which languange to learn??? |
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| Vertumnus wrote: |
| I, personally, cannot stand when an English-speaking school refers to their Indonesian classes as Bahasa Indonesia instead of Indonesian. In the US, are language classes referred to by their native name (Francais, Deutsch, etc.)? I think not. |
Sometimes it is both polite and proper for English speakers to use the Indonesian/Bahasa Indonesia way of saying something or addressing someone. I would never greet a man who had made the trip to Mecca as "Greetings, Mr. One-who-has-made-the-trip-to-Mecca <name>." I would say, "Greetings, Haji <name>."
My college uses the BM way of advertising classes that are conducted in BM, not English. So, "Bahasa Kebangsaan" is advertised, not National Language. "Pendidikan Moral" instead of Moral Studies. "Sejarah Malaysia", not The History of Malaysia. And these are in English language brochures.
Another example. Balik kampung has a much deeper meaning than simply return to the home village. Ever hear someone say in English: "I am going to return to my village this weekend."? My colleagues (99% Malay) all say, "I will balik kampung this weekend." (Or more likely, they will say: "Saya kan balik kampung hujung minggu ni.")
I also get a kick out of English-speakers throwing out the term 'bahasa' because my Malay colleagues never use such a shortened version. They will say BM or Bahasa Melayu, in both English and Malay.
Other pet peeves?
English speakers say: batik as "bah-teeeeek". Hahaha.....so a little insect would be a "teeeeeek", and not a "tick".
English speakers trying to use the post-fix 'lah'. Few get it right. If they were fluent in BM, then it would work, but most are lazy to learn the language and do a Frankenstein mix, like: "I will balik kampung-lah this weekend. Dan you?"
Grinding teeth.....nails on chalk-board..... |
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Andror
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Here in Jakarta, those returning to the kampung, especially around Idul Fitri / 'Lebaran' time, tend to use the term 'mudik', or more formally 'pulang kampung'. |
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Jati
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 155
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| Andror wrote: |
| Here in Jakarta, those returning to the kampung, especially around Idul Fitri / 'Lebaran' time, tend to use the term 'mudik', or more formally 'pulang kampung'. |
Interesting. Mudik in Malay means 'upstream' (in Malaysia we use hulu, same meaning), which might reflect that a lot of people come from the poorer kampungs which lie along the upper reaches of rivers, not down by the coast.
Both balik and pulang mean "to return" and the predominant useage of one over the other just shows the different habits of Malaysian and Indonesian speakers. Malaysians tend to say that they balik kampung, but pulangkan items.
I once brought a friend of mine to one of my favorite warungs for tea. The friend had lived in Indonesia for many years and was thus fairly fluent in Bahasa Indonesia. The tauke of the warung heard him say a brief greeting and said, "How long have you been living in <name of city on Java, not Jakarta>?" My friend was shocked that the tauke could not just pick out that he was from Indonesia -not Malaysia- but also which part of Indonesia he had learned the language. I know for a fact that the warung employed many Indonesians from various places: Madura, Flores, Java, Sumatra: the tauke had all of the regional variations in BI down pat. |
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Vertumnus
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Indonesia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Which languange to learn??? |
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| Jati wrote: |
Sometimes it is both polite and proper for English speakers to use the Indonesian/Bahasa Indonesia way of saying something or addressing someone. I would never greet a man who had made the trip to Mecca as "Greetings, Mr. One-who-has-made-the-trip-to-Mecca <name>." I would say, "Greetings, Haji <name>." |
Ah, but therein lies a difference - Haji is a title. Can you provide a better example? I cannot think of a time when it's proper to mix the Indonesian rule (which come from the fact that most people here haven't got a family name) with English. That's the main reason English is such a pain in the butt - mixing!
| Jati wrote: |
| My college uses the BM way of advertising classes that are conducted in BM, not English. So, "Bahasa Kebangsaan" is advertised, not National Language. "Pendidikan Moral" instead of Moral Studies. "Sejarah Malaysia", not The History of Malaysia. And these are in English language brochures. |
Call me a purist, but a class should be named in the language within which it is taught, thus I agree with your examples above - EXCEPT when the reader of the brochure requires a translation to understand! 
| Quote: |
| Another example. Balik kampung has a much deeper meaning than simply return to the home village. Ever hear someone say in English: "I am going to return to my village this weekend."? My colleagues (99% Malay) all say, "I will balik kampung this weekend." (Or more likely, they will say: "Saya kan balik kampung hujung minggu ni.") |
Pulang kampung or mudik are what Indonesians generally use. And, yes, I have heard English speakers say they'll return to their (home) village/town/city. I appreciate the addition of the Malay parlance!
| Quote: |
| I also get a kick out of English-speakers throwing out the term 'bahasa' because my Malay colleagues never use such a shortened version. They will say BM or Bahasa Melayu, in both English and Malay. |
Yes, agreed. But, do they realize the English meaning of bm?
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Other pet peeves?
English speakers say: batik as "bah-teeeeek". Hahaha.....so a little insect would be a "teeeeeek", and not a "tick". |
Are you then saying that the Malaysian pronunciation is "bah-tick"? In Indonesia, most say "bah-teek".
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| English speakers trying to use the post-fix 'lah'. Few get it right. If they were fluent in BM, then it would work, but most are lazy to learn the language and do a Frankenstein mix, like: "I will balik kampung-lah this weekend. Dan you?" |
So, what is the correct usage? I don't use "lah" since I find words like that confusing (lah, loh, dong, sih, etc.)....
-D[/quote] |
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basiltherat
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| So, what is the correct usage? I don't use "lah" since I find words like that confusing (lah, loh, dong, sih, etc.).... |
expressions such as 'sih' and 'dong' are most frequently used in jakarta. if you got used to using these expressions, you'd be admired in jakarta but ridiculed anywhere else 
they don't really have any meaning but are more to show one's emotions.
e.g.
ayo, dong = come on, then (hurry up, for God's sake)
apa, sih ? = whaaaaat ? (rising intonation)
nggak tahu, dong = haven't the foggiest (f*^* knows !)
siapa sih ? = who (the hell) was that ?
best
basil |
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Vertumnus
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Indonesia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, sih and dong are used outside Jakarta, although other ones such as lah are generally restricted to Chinese natives, and aren't common.
An interesting one I found in Central Java is "anu", which seems to be from Javanese, and is used to show confusion much like "uh". Anu-anu, on the other hand, means sex. |
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basiltherat
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:08 am Post subject: |
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interesting.
'anu' is also used in jakarta alot .... often when one doesn't know or can't remember the name of something/someone.
'gue ketemu 'sih anu' di pasar tadi' = 'i met old whatsisname at the market just now.'
'whatsisname ?' also (roughly) equivalent to = 'apa sih, namanya ?'
what a great language !
best
basil |
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