Job Discussion Forums

Ger · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 334

...to work on an f-visa or to get hired legally by a recruiter, say, in Macao and work on the mainland, for example, at a manufacturing company?

China Connection Education Service
Mansfield Manufacturing Co Ltd Dongguan (School B5)
www.teachenglishinchina.com/schools/b5.htm

I have been told that this is possible.

Thanks.

lagerlout2006 · Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 985

Don't think you can TEACH on an F visa but it doesn;t seem to stop anyone.Other kinds of work maybe.

You will need a mainland visa of some sort of course.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Nope.
Although you will rub shoulders with many TEFLers that only have a business visa, especially in Dongguan.
But for a Macau-based company to loan you to mainland corporations, that's a bit thick!
Where are you going to stay?
Who will be your immediate superior?
What if anything goes wrong?

Ger · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 334

Candy Tsui said there's a living place that goes with the manufacturing company. I don't know who my immediate superior would be. It doesn't matter, I need the money and a place to stay. I'm sure they will pay my salary, they seem honest. I think foreigners can work with an F-visa (it is a business visa after all). As people have said, loads of foreigners use f-visas.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

An F visa does NOT entitle you to work, far from it. It means you are welcome to engage in buying or other business activities that earn China money, and as a by-product, earn you some money as well.
They "seem" to be honest, but defnitely they lack sincerity because they lied to you by saying you can work on a business visa.

In yesterday's SCMP a report said the authorities are now camping down on underdocumented foreign nationals making an illegal living in Peking.

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

If they are so honest, why don't they get you a work visa? If you are honest, why don't you insist on one. It's easy enough. The vast majority of English teachers do work here on a legal visa.

Your question was, "Is it legal?" Then you say, "well, I don't really care if it is legal or not, lots of people do it."

Then why bother us by asking? I have no problem if they clamp down more on foreigners and schools doing things illegaly. A small percentage opf the total that causes most of the problems. Please translate that for me in PC speak so it doesn't seem quite so harsh.

Ger · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 334

The question, Is it legal? doesn't imply that I am NOT going to teach on an F-visa (if I had one). The question doesn't imply that I am honest or dishonest either.

Should I assume, from the fact that you chaps answered my question the way that you did, that you have never lied or been dishonest?

Look, on an F-visa, it is not like I would be persuading people to sell me their blood through the use of one needle and selling it to hospitals.

If I had an F-visa, I would only be helping people to learn English. No bad side-effects.

It wouldn't be like having a legal z-visa to operate a factory that pollutes the air.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Ger,
to me you come across as a sophist, and an immature one at that!
Let's not discuss whether we lie on occasion or not; the question is: if you know that working on an F visa is illegal, why ask in the first place? Or didn't you know? Why then imply that you don't care whether you are working illegally or not?
Side effects? A silly remark! No, there aren't likely to be "side effects", unless, of course, your learners catch SARS or something from you, or vice versa...
That would complicate matters really - imagine the news hullyballoo if a foreign national got cuaght carrying the SARS virus and having to be hospitalised...at whose costs?

And, perhaps, you are going to stay for more than 183 days. That might lead to other questions: does the holder of this F visa pay taxes while earning business profits on Chinese territory?

A Z visa holder canNOT operate any factory anyway. No "side effects"...

Next time just refrain from asking silly questions, and we will all be fine!

Ger · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 334

I think the law should be changed to allow me to teach with an F visa and I think the law shouldn't require me to have to give a blood sample to get a z visa.

Roger, you portray yourself as a sophisticated person with a lot of knowledge and maturity, would it not be better for foreigners to have the law changed so that we could teach with an F visa? And Roger, maybe you're an influential chap too with loads of guanxi, so if you agree with the F-visa-to-teach-no-need-to-give-blood idea then would you talk to your powerful cronies and ask them to bring this simple request about, and while you're at it, you could suggest to them the f-visa-to-teach-no-need-to-give-blood-nor-pay-any-taxes idea until we become goblins too!

What if I were married to a local Chinese person, what visa would I need if I wanted to teach and would I still have to give blood and pay taxes?

Don't get me wrong. I`m not trying to make a monkey out of you. I can`t take the credit.

lagerlout2006 · Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 985

Hi Ger-----I don't mind admitting I worked in Korea on tourist visas. Not legal. I was also caught. I was given a small fine and an exit order (but was free to return immediately). I would not do this in China---I don't think one would get off so easy.

Why do you think it unfair we can't teach on an F visa? It seems reasonable enough there is a separate visa for education. Most countries do this. Some "look the other way" but they all have regulations. Any legit school can get the Z visa quickly.

I have never heard of Immigration sweeping schools here looking for illegal teachers...But I would not do it for these reasons: If someone has a grudge against you or your employer all it would take is a phone call to get you in trouble. What if you have to deal with the police for some reason...?...Where are you living? Anyway I am legal so I am not an expert on these things. Good luck...

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

I don't know if I should refrain from replying this time; some of these opinions are frivolous.
Why this fixation on the letter 'F' in your visa? Why not 'L'? It's exactly the same in terms of rights and duties.

But I don't think I would even wish for a change in the way you suggested; either foreign nationals have to be approved and their passports visaed, or not. However, I can't visit YOUR country and take up a teaching job there without first being approved, can I?
No country - to my knowledge - allows foreign nationals to teach in their schools - this is a state-supervised occupation and often the right "attitutde" is required from teachers.
As for the blood test, I have no difficulty with that although it's a waste of time in 99 cases of 100. the 100th being a carrier of HIV. Immigrants to Western countries also undergo medical examination before they are allowed to settle, so I can't really find anything wrong.

Maybe you want to come here without a visa in the first place; why then hold on to your passport?

Ger · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 334

Yeah, why do we have to have passports, Roger?

Why can't we just use our birth certificates instead to travel here, there or anywhere?

What would happen if there were no such thing as visas? It would be better, I think. Then L or F would be irrelevant.

But since there are L , F visas etc., there should be just one type of visa and if you're allowed to visit a place you should be allowed to work or study using that visa for the length of time that you are allowed to stay there.

What about the marriage question?

Kapt. Krunch · Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Posts: 163

Yeah,yeah,yeah...but how about an "entertainer" visa...or a "babysitter" visa. How do you get one of those?? Razz

laodeng · Joined: 07 Feb 2004 Posts: 481

The world of should is not the world of is.

Ger · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 334

What about the marriage question, Laodeng, Roger, have you any personal experience of that?