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starteacher
Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 237
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 Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: Pensions advice |
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This is cut out from the recent thread "excuse me but......" , as would like to focus on the pensions issue :
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| I have never paid into the pension scheme in the 11 years... |
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| Pension can be mandatory (through shahai hoken) or voluntary (if you are not on shakai hoken). If one is planning to be here 3 years or so, it doesn't hurt to pay into the pension plan, because you'll get most of it back. |
To Apsara and Glenski, and experienced long time teachers in Japan
I hope you don't mind me asking, as it is slightly personal, but is it worth paying into the pension scheme. As Glenski points out, you can get back much of it after 3 years, but for those who have lived or have ties with in Japan longer, is it worth it ?
I had a colleague who has been (and still is) in Japan for about 20 years and he has married and lived there with his family and children, but never got into pensions. When I last saw him a while back, he regretted not putting money into pensions, as he also doesn' t have a pension back home. And probably never expected to be in Japan for all that duration. As now you can still contribute to the pension scheme even if you leave the country and claim it when you retire.
There is debate if pensions are worth it, but when you are young and free and every cent counts, the thought of pensions is probably far from most people's minds. But I had another colleage who had been working and living in many different countries (where now I don't exactly know !) who contributed to about 3 or 4 pension schemes in those countries, if albeit to control his spending he said like a saving scheme. The reasoning was that if he was to retire and live for another 25 years after (which is not an impossibility nowadays), then he would just live off the various accumulated pensions for as long as it came rolling in. Because even if you saved a nest egg, instead of putting it into a pension, you never really know how much nest egg you need to accumulate to retire on, and the only people who benefit from your nest egg are your inheritors anyway who just fight over it. And if he got divorced (laughingly) he would have to pay half of it to his wife  whilst a pension will still be his for as long as he stays alive.
So I wonder what advice some members on this forum can also give regarding pensions. On the one hand, save and spend what you have, but on the other hand such thinking will not be so easy when you have other things to consider in life whenyou are younger and starting out.
I know no-one is a financial planner as each person's cases are different.
Views ?
Thanks
PS : I started contributing to the pension scheme to curb my spending. Can I leave the country, claim my pensions back for 3 years, then return to work for another 3 years, claim it again etc ? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions advice |
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| starteacher wrote: |
| I hope you don't mind me asking, as it is slightly personal, but is it worth paying into the pension scheme. As Glenski points out, you can get back much of it after 3 years, but for those who have lived or have ties with in Japan longer, is it worth it ? |
It can be a tricky question to answer, considering most people don't actually make a plan to stay anywhere long enough to retire. Stay here longer than 3 years but leave before you can collect pension, and you won't be able to collect what seems worth it. Japan only lets people claim 3 years worth, as you know. (I hear they may be thinking of extending that to 5, but wheels turn slowly and plans change.)
Also, if you get Permanent Resident status, you can backdate your pension start date 20 years, so that you could actually start collecting it sooner, although you could collect only what you've paid in.
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| I started contributing to the pension scheme to curb my spending. Can I leave the country, claim my pensions back for 3 years, then return to work for another 3 years, claim it again etc ? |
No. |
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ripslyme
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 481
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions advice |
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| Glenski wrote: |
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| I started contributing to the pension scheme to curb my spending. Can I leave the country, claim my pensions back for 3 years, then return to work for another 3 years, claim it again etc ? |
No. |
Yes, I have.
Specifically, I did JET for 2 years. Returned to the USA and claimed it. Then came back to Japan to work at a private school. Returned to the USA and claimed it again. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Very rare, then, rip, and very much frowned upon by the authorities here. Congrats. |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions advice |
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[quote="Glenski"]
| starteacher wrote: |
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| I started contributing to the pension scheme to curb my spending. Can I leave the country, claim my pensions back for 3 years, then return to work for another 3 years, claim it again etc ? |
No. |
As others have said, Glenski, you're quite wrong on that count. I know several people that make a point of doing exactly that. One of them has been doing it for 9 years now. |
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ripslyme
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 481
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Very rare, then, rip, and very much frowned upon by the authorities here. Congrats. |
I guess they didn't have too much of a problem with it. They let me back into the country to teach yet again.  |
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:05 am Post subject: |
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I am not advocating avoiding paying into any kind of pension scheme at all- for most of the time I have been here I was unaware that such an option existed.
If possible though I would like to continue avoid paying into the Japanese pension system as I'm not at all convinced I will ever see any of it- I have private investments in NZ of various types (pretty modest still, but working on it!) |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:20 am Post subject: |
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All right, so some people have cheated the system and done it. I'll accept that.
The Japanese government only has this to say:
Lump-sum Withdrawal Payments are granted, in principle, on request to persons who satisfy the following four conditions after they withdraw from the National Pension, the Employees� Pension Insurance or the Mutual Aid Association and file a claim within two years of leaving Japan.
① Persons who do not possess Japanese citizenship.
② Persons who have paid National Pension Insurance contributions as a Category 1 insured person for a total of six months or more including months in the full contribution payment period and periods corresponding to three quarters of the months in the 25 percent contribution exemption period, half of the months in the 50 percent contribution exemption period, and a quarter of the months in the 75 percent contribution exemption period, or Employees� Pension Insurance contributions for six months or more.
③ Persons who do not have a place of residence in Japan (only those who had a proper visa on or after November 9, 1994 and then left Japan).
④ Persons who have never been qualified for receipt of pension benefits (including Disability Allowance).
http://www.sia.go.jp/e/pdf/english.pdf
This is the regulation I went by. Apparently the highlighted parts (my underline and bold) are indeed just "in principle" after all.
But as I said, congratulations, ok?! |
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Chris21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| Very rare, then, rip, and very much frowned upon by the authorities here. Congrats. |
Not so rare, I also worked on JET (3 years), visited home after my contract ended, mailed my refund letter from home, returned to a job in Japan and started working. I got my full pension a few months later. |
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