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mrtwist
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 16
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 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
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| Some people go ga-ga for the multifarious forms of plant and animal life to be found in a rural area, but in my case I only feel truly alive in a megalopolitan setting. |
If plants and animals are all you see in a rural town/city, you have blinders on. As I wrote (and you didn't fully respond), the smaller the town, the greater the odds are that you are going to be forced to learn the language, written and spoken. You will also have a greater chance of getting to know the people and more traditional customs in a smaller town environment.
JET places the vast majority of its ALTs in rural areas, and ALTs hop to several schools. All the more opportunity to meet more people. You're going to be teaching, not sightseeing, and with JET you'll have more chance to get out because you don't have the typical eikaiwa work hours and days. |
I'll concede that for most people this might be the case, but my experience in Tokyo was somewhat different. I spent four months there on my own after an aborted study abroad and learned enough in that four months that I was able to skip a year of Japanese when I got back to school in the States. I came in contact with far more people in Tokyo than I did in Akita, and I made sure to avoid speaking English as much possible when I talked to them. During that time I made lots of friends who didn't speak English at all. I'm sure someone could go to Tokyo and ends up in an English speaking diaspora if they were so inclined, but that's not what I plan on. I don't really need a situation to "force me" to learn Japanese because I've already got a pretty decent base, and I'm motivated to study hard and get better.
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| My point is, don't sacrifice anything. There are jobs out there for 180,000 yen/month for FULL-TIME jobs. That really sucks, and I highly encourage people to pass those by. The standard has been 250,000 for decades, and only recently have some employers found it easy to pay less. Some nationalities take it. You don't have to. Keep the market at least at 250K (inflation over those decades has made even that salary less than stellar). |
Point well taken. I'll definitely hold out for a job with a decent wage as long as my savings will allow! Believe me, I'd much rather make 250,000 than 180,000.
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| Pardon me, but that is not "low-paying". It's ZERO PAY! Why would you do anything like that? I am a freelance proofreader/editor, and I can tell you the market there is very competitive, too, but to do work, ANY work, for free is just plain stupid, and it does far worse than undercut the market like teaching. If you want tips on proofreading side jobs, PM me. I've written about it extensively here, too, in other threads. |
Sounds good. I don't want to work for nothing, that's for sure. I was under the impression these guys I met made a living working for a weekly? I guess not. They definitely weren't the most professional guys I've ever met.
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| Then, unless the Japanese culture and uniqueness of a teaching position really stirs you, I think you are going to be terribly unsatisfied here unless you are in Tokyo. Seriously. If this is the way you feel about the Twin Cities, then don't even look at JET, don't look at any other Japanese city. But I think you would be missing so much. |
Which is exactly why I want to live in Tokyo. I understand there are other locations in Japan that have their own appeal, but for me Tokyo is where it's at. All of my interests converge in Tokyo more than any other location in Japan. For music, literature, and record collecting, Tokyo is where it's at.
Thanks for the info. After looking at that, I believe a work visa is definitely the way to go. My current plan is to save as much money as I can between now and February and just go to Tokyo alone and try to find a job. |
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mrtwist
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Apsara wrote: |
OP seems to have been put off just about every single job option by things he(?) has found on the internet. In reality there are thousands of people here doing those jobs and most are quite happy with them- some are disgruntled, sure, so those are the ones you will hear from mostly. Different branches of the same school can be very different places to work- it's often just the luck of the draw. |
That's exactly what's happened. Back in college I was full of pluck and bravado, thinking, "oh I'll just go to Tokyo and get a job, no big deal." Then I looked at the job listings on gaijinpot and whatnot, researched some of them, and became pretty disillusioned. It made me affraid to just go for it. From what people have been telling me here and other places it seems like the key is to go to Japan with enough money so that you can be somewhat selective about which jobs you will select.
| Apsara wrote: |
Don't worry about picking up Kansai-ben- I worked with Kansai people in Nagano when I first came to Japan and the expressions I picked up are still useful for amusing Kanto people years later. It allows me to understand lots of the comedy on TV here too.. |
I'd like to pick up Kansai-ben someday, but I'm affraid it might confuse me, as I'm still far from perfect with hyojungo.
| Apsara wrote: |
Sometimes I think it's better just to take the plunge- if you don't like the situation you end up in, then change it after giving it a bit of a chance to work out. Life's an adventure, right? It can be more fun if you don't over analyse and expect things to turn out exactly how you envisioned them.
Chances are when you move to a foreign country nothing will turn out how you expected anyway, no matter how well-informed you are. This could well be a good thing. |
That's actually really great advice. Pretty much exactly what I needed to read in order to get up the guts to just say, "screw it, I'm going." Thanks. |
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mrtwist
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| fluffyhamster wrote: |
Hmm, from what you've written, it appears as though you probably have almost $7,000 saved. |
Not yet, but at my current savings pace I'll have around that much by February. Possibly around a thousand or so more if I decide to eBay off some of my record collection. I doubt that'll happen though!
| fluffyhamster wrote: |
If you're keen to pull in more than would be possible on a cultural visa (in order to not struggle to continue paying for even guesthouse accommodation, which can be overpriced relative to what you get, but it saved you key money and deposits), then maybe dispatch work would be the quickest way to get over here by April next year. I mean, you say you don't want to do eikaiwa work (who does really) and all that comes with it, and JET is a lottery placement-wise, but at least with dispatch you can apply for and end up in a prefecture surrounding Tokyo, and provided you scrimp on the accomodation set-up and keep your nose clean at work (i.e. accept you can't take off much if any time, or at all "neglect" whatever is perceived as your duties, even if that would impact on your teaching preparation) you'll be getting a full paycheck after just two months.* But all that being said, I'd still apply for JET and see where that process takes you - if successful, you could be offered a less rural position, and even a rural setting, like Glenski said, has its advantages, and a year (in which you'd be saving) would soon pass wherever, after which you could move to Tokyo. (Or aren't you going to budge from Minnesota unless everything is absolutely perfect right from the very start?  ). |
Y'know, when it comes right down to it, in my gut JET and eikaiwas just don't "feel right" so I think I'm best off just diving in and trying to get a job in Tokyo. If that ends up being a dispatch, then so be it. I'm gonna follow Glenski's advice though and hold out for a higher paying job. I'm also gonna try to get up to nikkyu level between now and March, which I know I can do if I dedicate myself. Hopefully that will open up my prospects somewhat.
| fluffyhamster wrote: |
I think I could've avoided a lot of the problems I had with dispatchers if I'd simply stayed in a guesthouse and saved the 300K I spent to move into my own place, then the horrendous apartment contract renewals every two years etc. Basically, I was in a poor financial position, and they exploited that fact (they just don't want to know about how the indirect, delayed pay sucks - although they know damn well - and won't ever bite the BOE that feeds first them!). If you don't need to borrow money from them, and like I say don't attract any deductions, you'll soon be earning enough to be able to walk iff they become completely unreasonable. Sorry if my posts on RCS and the like have put you or others off too much! (But I still have to say, that deducation down to 100,000 yen or less for many AETs was just insane! Companies that are in that sort of financial shape shouldn't employ anyone, even illegally! Then there is the inexcusable nastiness of critters like Borderstink (Borderlink), even though their automated advance system through UFJ was a lifesaver. "You" really need something like that, or a dispatcher who's prepared to push for faster processing of timesheets and/or to dip into their own pot a bit deeper).
** http://www.englishdroid.com/node/231 |
So are you suggesting a guest house would be an OK long-term housing option? I'm not opposed to living in one at all, provided I'm not sharing a bathroom with a bunch of strangers!  I was at a place like that when I was in Tokyo, but luckily I ended up in an "apartment" with my own bathroom. I couldn't do a communal bathroom! |
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mrtwist
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
1) Most people who start out teaching English in Japan have zero background in teaching. I didn't, and I got into the game far older than you. If you enjoy doing it, you will probably see the need to improve yourself. This is easily possible, and not just through online classes. There are places throughout Japan where you can take seminars or join professional organzations (ETJ is free, JALT is not but in my opinion it is worth the price). |
Thanks for the info. I'll keep that in mind. That's encouraging to know most people come without any Japanese. I'm very conversational, but if I evaluate myself honestly I'm still clumsy at speaking.
| Glenski wrote: |
2) Why would you use the word reputable here? You make it sound as if those kindergarten jobs are horrible. I have never taught them, but what exactly did you mean? I know a few people who have such jobs, and they like them immensely and have very reputable employers. |
I used the word "reputable" because stories I've heard about dispatch services like RCS made them seem pretty shady. I was wondering if kindergartens were just as sketchy. I didn't mean to make it sound as though they were bad jobs at all. I just don't have ANY clue how they are, so I was wondering if they had a similar reputation as the dispatchers. A lot of what I read is so negative that it almost has me expecting every job over there to be a nightmare. I'm sure that's not the case though. I would actually love to work at a kindergarten, since young children are my favorite age to teach (like K-3rd grade).
| Glenski wrote: |
Lastly, realize what EFL is like in Japan. Elementary school kids are not going to be making speeches and writing reports in English. The government has flip-flopped on whether to even allow English courses in the curriculum there, and when it finally did, it was a sudden change so the J teachers had no time to prepare to teach. In JHS and SHS, the kids are taught the grammar, but mostly by the J teachers, not us foreigners. JHS kids get the best of the deal IMO and are taught the essential basics, but after that EFL for them is all about passing the college entrance exams, so SHS kids get very frustrated about learning it. They are taught more along the lines of grammar translation (again, by J teachers), and foreigners's roles amount to either being a mouthpiece (showing them how natural English really sounds) or being a glorified eikaiwa teacher (although not to just 4 or 5 students at a time, and it can be a real challenge to hold an eikaiwa-type class to a room full of 40-45 kids who are unmotivated). In college, the general rule for students is to coast for 4 years and graduate into a job that hires them on the basis of the school's name, not their grades. So, they take the required English courses begrudgingly and expect to pass just by showing up (sometimes even ignoring the attendance policies!), and teachers have to suffer with classes from 10 to 120 students in size. Eikaiwa for adults is a review of grammar plus the extension of putting it into use, but adult students are mostly housewives with time and money to burn, with a smattering of businesspeople, retirees, and the younger set. Most don't expect to be taught to be perfect speakers or conversationalists (be wary of those who do!), and there is little to zero homework in eikaiwa, so the environment for actual learning takes place in the short once a week timespan of the paid classess (45 to 80 minutes). Many teachers see eikaiwa as an opportunity to waste time by just chatting with enraptured (or captive) students, others play the tapes/CDs and sit back doing no real teaching, many come to work hung over, and some are serious. You might do well to read this article on what professionalism means to the serious teachers and to their eikaiwa managers. |
Once again thanks for the info. I've heard a lot of that from friends before. In short, my take on working is that I whatever job I have I want to take it seriously and perform my duties to the best of my abilities. To tell the truth, unless the pay was fantastic teaching adults, I'd rather teach children. |
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Yawarakaijin
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Man, Am I missing something? I don't see what all the fuss is about. You seem like you really have your heart set on living in Japan and getting out of your current situation.
Why don't you just apply to Westgate or one of the big three Eikaiwa and get your arse over here? After you get here you may find your options open up a little.
Seems like nowadays an Eikaiwa or a dispatch company is about the only way to get in to Japan unless you have a superb resume. I guess it is not ideal but you have to face it, thats the way things currently are over here. Quite honestly I don't believe I have ever met a person who actually wanted to get here and wasn't able to. Just do it man. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| mrtwist wrote: |
| I used the word "reputable" because stories I've heard about dispatch services like RCS made them seem pretty shady. I was wondering if kindergartens were just as sketchy. I didn't mean to make it sound as though they were bad jobs at all. I just don't have ANY clue how they are, so I was wondering if they had a similar reputation as the dispatchers. |
Even though I have never worked for a kindergarten or dispatch agency, the word on the street is pretty clear. It is the dispatch agencies that are shady, not the schools where they send the teachers. The school (or its BOE) may be cheapos, and think that a dispatch agency is the best route to save them money, and sometimes it may be true in the long run, but the teacher usually gets screwed by the dispatch agency, not the school or BOE. Read around.
| Quote: |
| Seems like nowadays an Eikaiwa or a dispatch company is about the only way to get in to Japan unless you have a superb resume. I guess it is not ideal but you have to face it, thats the way things currently are over here. |
Other than JET, I don't see as the above statement is any different than it has been for years (or at least when the dispatch agencies began to proliferate). Please bear in mind a few things:
1) Most dispatch agencies operate illegally, and many/most will somehow screw you over (zero or low pay during school break, all the while they still get their take; last moment cancellation of your contract or some shoddy made-up weak points in your performance review, thereby nixing your promised bonus; etc.).
2) Eikaiwa can hire locally or abroad (far fewer from abroad), and as has been the case for years/decades, unless one is prepared financially to support oneself for 2-3 months here, the best route is to stay home and job hunt there.
3) Whatever you do, don't put all your eggs in one basket.
4) Whatever you do, don't just leap into things. Learn the market. Learn the best timing. Learn what you have to do to hit the ground running. Learn some Japanese. Learn how to make a good resume and cover letter. Learn before you come. |
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am3n3
Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 1
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I just wanted to chime in to say this is one of the most useful threads I've read on this board. Thanks everyone! |
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mrtwist
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:05 am Post subject: |
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Apologies for resurrecting this ancient thread, but I'm finally in a position to move to Tokyo and look for a job and am looking for a little additional/updated advice. First an update on my situation:
I've spent the past year working as an ESL teacher/in-school substitute at a Muslim charter school where the vast majority of the student body was made up of international students. My students' NWEA test scores went up dramatically from where they were in the beginning of the year when I started working with them, and due to this and developing great rapport with the kids I was lucky enough to receive a fabulous recommendation from my school's principal. During this time I was also able to put away some money so I'll now be heading to Japan with around eight grand in savings.
However, from what I've been able to gleam reading the more recent posts on here the job market is severely over-saturated in Japan right now. Last spring on a lark I applied to a random listing - albeit rather old - on Gaijinpot and saw that over 150 people had already applied! There's also the little matter of the world economy going to hell last fall to contend with.
Right now I'm in the process of trying to find a job online in order to start work in September. Searches on Gaijinpot, etc. haven't exactly been the most fruitful to say the least. I'm going to be in Japan from July 25th to September 19th and if I don't have anything by then I want to see if my luck is better "on the ground" so to speak (I wanted to stay a full 89 days but the tickets went up around $400 after September 20th).
With that overlong exposition out of the way, here are my questions:
1) Given my background - two years teaching experience, one year ESL experience, study abroad in Japan, and roughly "business level" Japanese - is it possible that I will be able to find someone willing to offer me visa sponsorship in Tokyo? Do my odds go up at all when I'm actually there in person?
2) About this whole visa business, one thing that sends me crashing into spirals of discouragement is when I see that every job listed in Tokyo requires the applicant to "reside" in Japan. Does "residing" in this case imply already having a work visa? What is the likelihood of one of these employers helping me get a visa?
3) What is my best bet for finding a job in Tokyo outside of sites like Gaijinpot?
4) Regarding the dispatch services, what would be my best bet? I noticed that RCS had a listing semi-recently for positions going until March 2010. Assuming they're still hiring this is a fallback option I'm weighing. For me six months of inaka would be like a six month prison sentence, but if it's the price I've got to pay I'm starting to think I'd be willing to bite the bullet for six months, then hop to Tokyo when it's through. However...
5) RCS and other inaka dispatch services encouraging employees to get international drivers licenses scares me. Anyone know what the likelihood is that they'd send you out to a super rural area where cars are a necessity? From my experience cars are a total financial black hole and a really stressful way to get around.
6) Basically what it all boils down to is this: I'm at a loss as to whether or not I should just get a six month job with RCS or if I should roll the dice on trying to find a job in Tokyo once I'm there in a month. The former would be more secure, albeit unpleasant, but the latter is a risk that could either leave me empty handed or finally attaining the dream that's eluded me for the past four years.
Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated! Living in Tokyo has been what I've wanted more than anything for the past four years, and I'm just desperate for something to finally work out for me! Apologies in advance to anyone who may feel slighted by my dismissive tone towards rural living. Nothing against the people there but I've tried it and it's just not for me. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hi again Mrtwist. Congrats on doing such sterling work at the charter school!
Jobs on Gaijinpot have always had hundreds of applicants applying - the automated application process makes it easy to apply for a half dozen jobs practically at once (if one disregards optional formalities like composing covering letters). The amazing thing though is that one would still get more replies and interviews than not, even when one were firing off only halfway-serious "applications"...but obviously, if there is a saturated market (and no doubt there is at the moment) then there may be a limit to the number of applications that an employer will want or need to wade through (unless they're hoping to get lucky and find a PhD who's applied to do just dispatch or something).
One problem with coming in late July to September is that that is prior the second semester of the academic year. That won't matter so much with eikaiwa, but there will be less available with dispatch work and/or private high schools (dispatch has made its way into private high schools too!) than there would've been had you applied for a job at the start of the academic year (i.e. in March/April). BTW, do you have anything that would make you appear more eligible for private high school work or above (MA in Applied Linguistics or TESOL)? Or even a CELTA or CTEFL/CTESOL, to help you stand out from the pack if only chasing lower/entry-level work? (Your experience should count for something, but a qualification on top would help). Sorry if you've mentioned quals before!
But as you know, being resident (and yes, I would interpret that to mean "Having somehow, prior to applying for the job, already changed from a short-term (non-renewable?) tourist to an easily renewable work visa/status that allows one to work for at least a year's granted Period of Stay" - employers who are willing to sponsor visas/welcome or will (need to?!) consider applications from overseas will explicitly say so) is more convenient for the majority of employers, and there will unfortunately be no shortage of people "ahead" of you in the queue. I honestly don't know if you will be able to secure work applying from outside Japan (it took me almost a year of several applications per month, after leaving JET and surrendering my work visa in 2002, to get back into working Japan in summer 2003, and then it was only because I'd worked in Shanghai with a guy who'd also worked at this school in Japan that seemed to swing them towards me), but if you're the type who can live very frugally and is prepared for things to take as long as they might need to take (e.g. until possibly next spring), then you might prefer to come to Japan sooner rather than later (so as to definitely not in the meantime miss any opportunities that may be more available closer to the ground).
For jobs, besides Gaijinpot there is obviously Dave's, Ohayo-sensei, Jobsinjapan.com , and Eltnews.com (those seem to be the main ones, especially if one will be applying from within Japan).
RCS weren't all bad/irredeemably nasty, but they did have severe financial problems in 2006-2007, and I suspect that more dispatchers will be raiding the coffers and witholding wages, if not going "bankrupt" (ethically if not financially) sometime soon.
As for cars, provided they are provided  and partly subsidized (and there aren't clauses saying you can't drive them in your free time), why not? It would beat spending potentially hundreds of dollars a month on public transport out of your own pocket (dispatchers generally don't refund such expenses, or will adjust the basic wage downwards accordingly), and who likes packing onto buses and trains that don't ever go quite door-to-door day after day?
Last edited by fluffyhamster on Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:07 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| mrtwist wrote: |
| 1) Given my background - two years teaching experience, one year ESL experience, study abroad in Japan, and roughly "business level" Japanese - is it possible that I will be able to find someone willing to offer me visa sponsorship in Tokyo? Do my odds go up at all when I'm actually there in person? |
Yes, and yes.
| Quote: |
| 2) About this whole visa business, one thing that sends me crashing into spirals of discouragement is when I see that every job listed in Tokyo requires the applicant to "reside" in Japan. Does "residing" in this case imply already having a work visa? What is the likelihood of one of these employers helping me get a visa? |
Not everyone wants applicants to be here. Keep looking
They want people who have any visa that permits work, whether work visa, dependent visa, student visa, spouse visa, or permanent resident status.
I don't quote odds/likelihood. You seem to stand a good chance, but even with excellent qualifications, they may simply not like your face or personality. Keep that in mind and keep looking. Experience with Muslim cultures will probably not be considered equivalent to teaching in Japan, either, so work on ways to make it sound strong nevertheless.
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| 3) What is my best bet for finding a job in Tokyo outside of sites like Gaijinpot? |
This will sound Homer Simpson "doh"-esque, but just visit other sites. There are plenty.
www.eslcafe.com
www.eltnews.com
www.ohayosensei.com
www.jobsinjapan.com
www.japantimes.co.jp (different from their paper issue)
and many more. PM me if you want a list of a few more, or just search. This is something you have to learn by yourself. People will give you a hand, but a flooded market may also scream "every man for himself".
| Quote: |
| 4) Regarding the dispatch services, what would be my best bet? |
Don't use them. Just my opinion.
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| 5) RCS and other inaka dispatch services encouraging employees to get international drivers licenses scares me. Anyone know what the likelihood is that they'd send you out to a super rural area where cars are a necessity? |
Again with the odds. If you don't want a countryside job, that's your prerogative, and I can only tell you some of the positive things about it. After that, if you still don't want it, I'll just tell you that you would severely cut your "likelihood" of getting work.
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| From my experience cars are a total financial black hole and a really stressful way to get around. |
Employers want you to have a license, not buy a car. They provide it, so it's up to you to find out just what they provide (paid taxes, paid safety inspection, gasoline, parking, etc.). Ask.
| Quote: |
| 6) Basically what it all boils down to is this: I'm at a loss as to whether or not I should just get a six month job with RCS or if I should roll the dice on trying to find a job in Tokyo once I'm there in a month. The former would be more secure, albeit unpleasant, but the latter is a risk that could either leave me empty handed or finally attaining the dream that's eluded me for the past four years. |
What's your dream? Seriously.
I also think that some of my remarks so far here have shown that your perceptions of job hunting here need to be reevaluated a bit. Not all countryside life is what you experienced before. Steer clear of RCS, too.
| Quote: |
| Living in Tokyo has been what I've wanted more than anything for the past four years, and I'm just desperate for something to finally work out for me! |
Last word of advice: don't be "desperate". Japan is not going away. |
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