Job Discussion Forums

[KwikSilva]

Good day to all,
Hello everyone. This is my first post on Dave's ESL Cafe. I've spent the past two weeks exploring the various forums on the site and have been greatly impressed by the wealth of information, sage advice, and animated commentary to be found here. I also appreciate the willingness of ESL vets to help "newbies" just starting out in the field, and to give them the real low-down on exactly what they can expect without sugar-coating anything. I would be deeply grateful for your complete honesty (however discouraging) in response to my queries. I do not wish to waste my time and energy pursuing impossible dreams or laboring under rose-tinted illusions. So just let me have it with the cold, hard facts.

First -- a brief profile.

I am a single woman, over 50, born and raised in New York where I now reside. I have worked as a paralegal, and more recently as a freelance copy editor. I have a B.A. in English, zero experience teaching, and no knowledge of any foreign language. I recently completed a 100-hour TESOL course which included a teaching practicum. However, it was not a "brand-name" program such as CELTA or Trinity. I enjoyed the course and look forward to teaching English, preferably to motivated adults. Eventually I hope to specialize in preparing students to take the TOEFL exam, required for admittance to U.S. universities.

The countries in which I would most like to teach are Hong Kong, Taiwan, Poland, Vietnam, and Turkey, in that order. I would require private accommodations, either provided free of charge or subsidized by the employer (i.e. a housing allowance), a higher-than-subsistence wage (I am very low-maintenance and would hope to be able to save at least a third of my salary), decent working conditions (well-equipped classrooms and at least a modicum of teacher support) and reliable internet access (so as not to feel too cut off from the rest of the world). Here are my questions:

A. Given my qualifications, are these realistic expectations, at least for some of the countries on my wish list?

B. Where can I expect to encounter the most age discrimination?

C. What about the process of applying for a work visa? Will there be a daunting set of bureaucratic hoops to jump through for any, or all of these countries?

D. How adversely will not knowing the local language affect my ability to adjust to the "culture shock" in any of these countries?

I realize that I ought to peruse the individual country forums for more specific information, which I will do, of course. But I thought perhaps some of you might be able to provide an overview based on your own experience as well as that of your friends and colleagues who may have taught in various regions of the world. Any advice you can offer will help me narrow down my choices and concentrate my efforts where they are most likely to be fruitful. Thank you for your input.

[naturegirl321]

A. Given my qualifications, are these realistic expectations, at least for some of the countries on my wish list? HK, don't know, but you wouldn't qualify for the NET scheme. Taiwan, yes, possibily, you have a BA, right? Poland, yes, but realise that now that they're in the EU, it's harder for Americans to get visas. VN, yes. Turkey, yes.

About the high salary, for Poland expect maybe 700usd a month. Asia might be about 1000 to 2000 usd, but realise that the more you get paid, the higher the cost of living is, usually.

About free or subsidized housing, that's more likely in Asia, but I don't think that any of the countries you picked have it. I know what China more often than not does, and Japan sometimes.

Decent working conditions, well, that depends on your definition of decent.

B. Where can I expect to encounter the most age discrimination? YOu should be ok, for ASia, as long as your in your 50s.

C. What about the process of applying for a work visa? Will there be a daunting set of bureaucratic hoops to jump through for any, or all of these countries? HK, Taiwan, and Turkey might be the easiest of them all. Poland is probably the most difficult.

D. How adversely will not knowing the local language affect my ability to adjust to the "culture shock" in any of these countries? Depends. Sorry, but it does, if you're like me, I'd rather sit at home and sip hot chocolate than spend a night on the town, I'm not a big socialiser, so not knowing the langauge doesn't affect me as much as it might another person. BUt still, there are frustrating times, not now, because I speak the language, but going to a grocery store in Korea, I wanted garbage bags and after like 10 minutes of pointing and drawing, they STILL didn't get it. So that's tough.

HOpe this helps

[JZer]

[JZer]

[JZer]

[Ariadne]

Greetings QwikSilva,

After the kids grew up and moved out I found my perfect job, only to have it disappear 4 years later when the company closed the office. Two of our kids were teaching in exotic, faraway places and I was a little jealous. My husband suggested that I give it a try too. (I'd taught for 2 years when we lived in Japan.. 20 years earlier.) I went back to school for a year and got a university TESOL certificate.

Turkey sounded great to me and I'd never been there so I started looking into it. After reading lots of stuff on Dave's and other places, I realized that I wouldn't have much luck getting a job at a university in Turkey. I knew I didn't want to work at a language school so I began looking for another country. I decided on China and was lucky enough to find a good position at a decent university. I turned 55 my first year in China.

I didn't speak much Japanese in Japan and I can't speak much Chinese in China. Lucky for me, it has been very easy to manage without knowing the local language. People have been very kind. Once you know where you're going to work you can start learning some basics.

I enjoy my own company, but I was careful to choose a school that had a good number of FTs. It's nice to be able to speak English with other native speakers sometimes.

Email and Skype are wonderful for staying in touch with family and friends and with the internet you can keep up with the news everywhere.

Take your laptop along. If you don't have one, get one.

Someone mentioned how it might be hard for you if you've been in the same place and had the same friends for many years. That's true, it might be, but it doesn't have to be. When I'm home I eat lunch every week with the same gals I went to high school with. We email all the time when I'm in China.

Hope some of this helps a little. Good luck to you. Have fun!!

[KwikSilva]

Hello again,

Thanks to all of you for your advice and suggestions. I have a few more general questions, if any of you would like to take a stab at them:

1. I have been reading some horror stories about teaching in private language institutes as opposed to the public schools. According to these reports, many of the language establishments view English teaching strictly as a business and are in it solely for the money. Thus they will work you to death, fail to honor contracts, use substandard books and equipment in their classrooms, and will even force you to give students a respectable grade whether they have earned it or not. Should I consider these stories gross exaggerations of someone's unpleasant experience, or take them at face value?

2. For those of you who had little or no knowledge of the local language, how difficult was it to teach students who, if they were confused or had questions, could not even vocalize their concerns to you? Were there native-speaking teachers nearby who could do some translation?. It seems to me it must be quite a challenge to conduct a class entirely in English for beginner students (children), or for those with only a minimal exposure to English. How did you mange to surmount this obstacle?

3. Have any of you ever done any private tutoring "on the side"? Do the contracts you sign with the schools prohibit this? As I am most interested in teaching more advanced students who intend to take exams such as the TOEFL and the ILETS, I would hope to be able to supplement my income by taking on students for one on one tutoring.

4. Have any of you found transportation to be an issue? How far do most of you live from the school where you work? I very much doubt I would consider buying a car in any country where I might teach. Therefore I would have to depend on public transportation entirely -- buses, trains, taxis, ferries. I suppose in large urban centers there would not be too much of a problem, but in more rural or suburban areas would it be foolish to think one could get by without a motor vehicle?

5. Finally, what do you miss most about your home country? Do you get homesick often, or does that feeling tend to fade with time? Do you find yourself spending most of your time with other ex-pats? Have any of you ever regretted your choice to work overseas, or at least to work in any particular country?

Please forgive my long-windedness, but I do find this subject fascinating and appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts and experiences. After this, I will probably direct most of my queries to the individual country forums. But again, thank you all for your input.

[naturegirl321]

1. Probably the majority of them consider it a business. Not all will work you to death. When people get fired, they tend to exaggerate.

2. Pretty easy if it's kids, though you have to change activities often. With adults it can be harder. Some places have native teachers to help out, others don't. Play games.

3. Some contracts prohibit it, some countries, like Korea prohibit it. But it's still done. If you want to do TOEFL stuff, or IELTS; make sure you know about the exams and grammar.

4. God yes, Peru is horrible. But in most civilised countries you should be fine, Peru's not really civisilsed.

5. Respect and consideration. HOmesickness can fade, other times no. Depends on the type of person you are. I spend my little free time with other expats, but have married a local. But really, I'd rather sit at home and crochet or read. I organise monthly women's coffees and mothly book/DVD swaps, which is a nice way to meet other expats and locals. I've regretted Peru, but not teaching.

[grahamb]

Peru's not really civisilsed?!? Can Peruvians spell correctly?

[JZer]

[JZer]

[denise]

I tried to reply to your first set of questions, but my computer spazzed out on me. I hope it behaves now.

Those bad schools really do exist, but they are avoidable. If they are too eager during the interview (like, "Can you start tomorrow?"), or if they won't let you contact current teachers, or if their website is riddled with errors (or they don't have a website), they might not be the most reputable of schools.

I have very limited experience with children, but in some of my past jobs, local teachers taught the lower levels and native speakers taught intermediate & higher. That structure really relieved me in my first teaching job, but now I don't mind the challenge. You just have to be really careful about limiting yourself--keep your language simple, don't give too many instructions at once, use gestures and props liberally, write everything on the board... It is doable, though, and even fun!

When you do get yourself settled into a country and job, see what help they can give you with housing--they may be able to find something suitable for you that is close to the school. If you're teaching in a private institute you may have business classes, which can mean that you'll spend part of your day traveling around the city to various companies. Good schools will factor travel time into your hours and even help you with transportation (including costs)--at my job in Prague, every time a new business class started, we were given explicit instructions as to what bus line to take, which end of the metro station to exit, etc., etc., and we were given monthly passes. Yes, learning the public transportation system can be challenging, but keep in mind that you'll probably have helpful colleagues with you in the beginning. Even if you're alone when you get on the plane to leave the US, you won't be alone once you get started.

I think the thing that I miss the most is not feeling like an outsider. Even with local friends and boyfriends (although for linguistic reasons I only dated the locals in Peru), I've always felt like I'm "Denise the American" instead of just Denise. And on a lighter note, there are tons of foods that I miss, but I'm flying home for vacation in two days, so I'll get my fill!

d

[justcolleen]

[SandyG20]

For the OP - I love this thread - I am also in my 50s and looking overseas from the USA for work teaching English. Excellent questions and great detailed answers!

[wintermute2]

...I am also over 50, and just accepted a job in the UAE...I agree with Sandy that this discussion board is helpful (and darned entertaining at times! ) ...I would appreciate any insight, and would be happy to return that which I can...