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sharpe88
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 226
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Yeah they could fire you, and that would be in the contract. But renegotiating a salary right after agreeing to it is not in the contract, just like giving you a pay cut is not. (Assuming there is a contract, even if there is not, this is commonly understood)
Negotiating a salary anywhere in the world is very rarely based on perfect information. You go by industry rates, what you will accept, and what the school will accept.
As someone else said, you can try this anyway. Very likely that the employer will hate your guts though. It's not like FTs are unreplaceable.
| The Ever-changing Cleric wrote: |
| sharpe88 wrote: |
Smart negotiating is fine but do your homework before accepting an offer, same as in any country.
How would you like if the school "renegotiated" your salary downwards after seeing your performance ? |
They could just fire you.
Doing your homework is essential, but some of the homework isn't easy (or possible) to do until you're actually working for the school. |
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evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| As someone else said, you can try this anyway. Very likely that the employer will hate your guts though. It's not like FTs are unreplaceable. |
Neither are employers, irreplaceable...and frequently salary does change from the original offering to a more employer friendly amount after you arrive...
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eva, in that situation what do you suggest I should have done, considering I actually wanted to teach there, and the pay and benefits weren't actually bad (just could have been better)?? |
This post was about FTs that were faced with different levels of pay from one employer...I not sure your situation matches the OPs original offering...but I would suggest you do what makes you feel like you have the best hold on a situation ... and if u check other post ..I have always said ..if happy with a salary then don�t sweat when other posters tell you that you have to stand up for the cause of all FTs and demand more...my post have always been about equal pay for equal levels of abilities...
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| And being cheeky is perfectly permissible - it seems to be anyway, loads of cheekiness goes on here. Definition: "impudent or irreverent, typically in an endearing or amusing way". I tried to be mildly amusing, but certainly not in a nasty way. I'm sorry if you felt it was nasty. |
I never said you were nasty...I said that your cheekiness was evidence of resentment ...and right you are it is permissible.. but isn�t it also permissible to draw conclusions ...
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| eva, why is it you keep thinking that I'm telling people not to try to get what they think is doable? If they are convinced they can do it then they should try. I've never said otherwise. I don't understand why you keep implying that. |
Then you agree with me...cause this is all I have ever offered...that a person should try and even the pay field if they feel it is unfair...
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| You will say that that was obviously a ploy by the school, and a clear opportunity wasted on my part, and how naive of me to take it at face value, bla, bla, bla. I maintain that it was simply what it seemed: a school that knows its value, that knows how much/little it needs to pay its FTs. I used the word "force" because you seem to be convinced that your/a random FT's negotiating skills will necessarily cause the desired effect. |
I all my post I have never stated what you will say .. and really you shouldn�t speculate what I will post or say.. ... this is the hyperbole that I reference from time to time...and the reason you use the word force has more to do with hyperbole than my negotiating skills, which were useful in increasing my pay mid contract by renegotiations...not so random are they? |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| sharpe88 wrote: |
| renegotiating a salary right after agreeing to it is not in the contract, just like giving you a pay cut is not. (Assuming there is a contract, even if there is not, this is commonly understood) |
I did do this, and it worked,
| sharpe88 wrote: |
| As someone else said, you can try this anyway. Very likely that the employer will hate your guts though. It's not like FTs are unreplaceable. |
three years after renegotiations took place and my employer and I still don't hate each other. In fact, it only strengthened the relationship since I didnt feel like letting them down after they did something seemingly considered out of the ordinary for this business.
I'm sure others have done the same thing in this country with similar results. If you go about it the right way, many employers are open to renegotiating. I guess the key is, to know the right way. |
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JGC458
Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 248
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:00 am Post subject: |
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eva, I'm too busy, too hot, too tired, and you're too persistent in not replying to the thrust (or even the wording) of my messages for me to bother replying yet again.
So I'll leave it at that. We agree in general...I just dislike how you word some of your advice...and on a completely unrelated note it would be nice if you proofread on occasion (which is what a poster was hinting at earlier today I think - your latest offering notwithstanding)... |
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evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
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| Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| So I'll leave it at that. We agree in general...I just dislike how you word some of your advice...and on a completely unrelated note it would be nice if you proofread on occasion (which is what a poster was hinting at earlier today I think - your latest offering notwithstanding)... |
..it seems to me when you include words like "forced" and attributed those word to me when I never used that kind of language...you have construed a meaning based on your own attitude and not the reality of what was posted...Proof reading? Another element of proofreading is accuracy in responding to what others have posted..
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| three years after renegotiations took place and my employer and I still don't hate each other. In fact, it only strengthened the relationship since I didnt feel like letting them down after they did something seemingly considered out of the ordinary for this business. |
rght on!
If a work place has an unlevel pay field....and you feel your abilities are sligthed by a smaller paycheck..speak out and dont be afread of the reprcusions .. after all, many members of this board will rally around any effort by the Chinese to gain control of their lives while working in service of the power brokers .... why not speak up ..... if u feel slighted, at least you know you took up for yourself...and that does go a long way with Chinese employers to develope a thin line of respect... |
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evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
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| Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| So I'll leave it at that. We agree in general...I just dislike how you word some of your advice...and on a completely unrelated note it would be nice if you proofread on occasion (which is what a poster was hinting at earlier today I think - your latest offering notwithstanding)... |
..it seems to me when you include words like "forced" and attributed those word to me when I never used that kind of language...you have construed a meaning based on your own attitude and not the reality of what was posted...Proof reading? Another element of proofreading is accuracy in responding to what others have posted..
| Quote: |
| three years after renegotiations took place and my employer and I still don't hate each other. In fact, it only strengthened the relationship since I didnt feel like letting them down after they did something seemingly considered out of the ordinary for this business. |
rght on!
If a work place has an unlevel pay field....and you feel your abilities are slighted by a smaller paycheck.. speak out and don�t be afraid of the repercussions .. after all, many members of this board will rally around any effort by the Chinese to gain control of their lives while working in service of the power brokers .... why not speak up ..... if u feel slighted, at least you know you took up for yourself...and that does go a long way with Chinese employers to developed a thin line of respect... |
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JGC458
Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 248
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| evaforsure wrote: |
| ..it seems to me when you include words like "forced" and attributed those word to me when I never used that kind of language...you have construed a meaning based on your own attitude and not the reality of what was posted...Proof reading? Another element of proofreading is accuracy in responding to what others have posted.. |
eva, I'm beginning to find you really tiresome. You take what I said out of context, give it your own meaning, and don't deal with the main issue. And never bothering to reference quotes correctly is just another example of how you don't bother with accuracy.
| evaforsure wrote: |
| If a work place has an unlevel pay field....and you feel your abilities are slighted by a smaller paycheck.. speak out and don�t be afraid of the repercussions .. after all, many members of this board will rally around any effort by the Chinese to gain control of their lives while working in service of the power brokers .... why not speak up ..... if u feel slighted, at least you know you took up for yourself...and that does go a long way with Chinese employers to developed a thin line of respect... |
Your...um?..."advice" isn't even suitable for a backpacking adventurer so forgive me if I as a married man with a child - who values getting a visa to be able to live with his wife and child - does not do as you suggest.
Be careful eva, you're getting close to slurring posters who don't deserve it.
I don't know, it seems to me that on reaching a certain age, if one still lives recklessly then one's life may be missing some vital ingredients...
How can you presume to know what attitudes Chinese employers will respect in FTs? But if you presume, then I'll presume and say that Chinese employers generally don't like being "obliged" to do what some FT wants...and if an FT has successfully "renegotiated" it's because the FAO either didn't care enough to disagree, or has no other option but to agree. The first case is hardly conducive to respect, and the 2nd case could mean a loss of face for the FAO.
And yet again, here I'll repeat that I think FT's should stand up for themself if they think the situation merits it. You on the other hand are simply saying "Go for it! MOD EDIT |
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