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bamboocactus
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 17
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 Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:37 am Post subject: "Must have proper visa" |
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What exactly does this mean?
Some sources (recruiters at the big companies, placement agencies, people who have experience getting foreigners visas) tell me it means you just need to be able to apply for a visa. Many others say they require you to already have a working visa.
The thing is that if I'm applying for a job that says this, and it's a full-time job, there's something I don't understand. From my knowledge of the law, if an employer is to hire a foreigner full-time, they are legally required to sponsor their visa. However, when I pointed out to one of my sources that many employers are saying that you should already have one (I was recently rejected by several who said this), they told me that the companies are just trying to save money and hassle.
One company even told me that they don't want to submit an application for a working visa for a foreigner who doesn't have one because the official will look down on it and it will hurt their credit as a school. Sounds like a load to me.
So I'm noticing that an employer will be very interested in me until they ask my visa status. I tell them I require sponsorhip and they run away like a scared woodland animal. Does anybody have experience with this? Furthermore, does anybody have any experience or tips on how to get the employer invested enough in the idea of hiring you that they don't care as much when you mention you need sponsorship?
Also interesting to note is this:
It here: http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/index.html states that
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It should be noted that Article 19, Paragraph 2, Item 2 of Immigration Control Act prohibits employers from taking employment discrimination or other disadvantageous treatment against foreign nationals who do not present this Certificate of Authorized Employment. |
I interpret this as meaning that it is illegal for an employer to discriminate based on whether or not an applicant has a Certificate of Eligibility (the same as Certificate of Authorized Employment??), which they can't get without an employer. Interesting. I looked at the actual passage on the Japanese government's official translated website for the law and it doesn't say this so clearly cut, but I want to see what other people thought of it. |
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BobbyBan
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 201
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Not sure what you can really do about this as no company is legally obliged to employ you or even to give you an interview. If you don't have a visa then they may simply decide not to bother interviewing or employing you. |
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jerkytheturkey
Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Employers are wary of foreigners that have no experience living in Japan. From what I have read many foreigners have been sent home for different things, I'm guessing that this can have a negative impact on the employer which is why they may discriminate.
A working holiday visa may be the answer to your problem. Employers that I have contacted seem to like them |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| jerkytheturkey wrote: |
Employers are wary of foreigners that have no experience living in Japan. From what I have read many foreigners have been sent home for different things, I'm guessing that this can have a negative impact on the employer which is why they may discriminate.
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Not surprised about that with the younger ones. For many of the fresh-faced grads, it may be their first time away from home, let alone living abroad. They probably think that it will all be one big party in J-land for a year or two.
I heard about one ALT who was lucky enough to only get sent home after they got a friend from back home to send them some weed in the mail... idiot 
But there are also many that bail out because Japan wasn't like in the manga and anime they'd seen or because they get homesick, etc. I personally know a few that have bailed after less than 3 months working here.
There are also many slightly dishonest people who apply to positions just to get visa sponsership then bail to seek employmen elsewhere. By asking for only current visa holders, they can eliminate this lot.
Another reason they may want current visa holders is because they need someone short notice. It can often take about 2 months or more to process a visa application. Maybe these schools/companies need somebody sooner but don't want to run the risk of having the foreigner working illegally whilst they wait on papers. |
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jerkytheturkey
Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| I heard about one ALT who was lucky enough to only get sent home after they got a friend from back home to send them some weed in the mail... idiot |
I've heard something similar but didn't want to go into detail. It surprises me how ignorant people are to the laws of another country. Being from the UK weed isn't something that incurs much punishment in small amounts, but why someone would risk it in Japan I don't know. Wandering from the OP question here though  |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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"Must have proper visa" only means that the employer doesn't want to sponsor a visa. They may have perfectly valid reasons, or stupid ones.
Proper visas are work visas, spouse visas, dependent visas, working holiday visas, cultural activities visas, or student visas. DV, CAV and StV require special permission to work, but that's easy to get.
If you need visa sponsorship, don't apply to these employers.
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It should be noted that Article 19, Paragraph 2, Item 2 of Immigration Control Act prohibits employers from taking employment discrimination or other disadvantageous treatment against foreign nationals who do not present this Certificate of Authorized Employment.
I interpret this as meaning that it is illegal for an employer to discriminate based on whether or not an applicant has a Certificate of Eligibility |
The COE is something you get by applying for the work visa with your employer. So, that means they have already accepted you for work, and it's pretty silly for them to turn you down after you get the COE, which is the green light for your visa. One does not need a COE, however, to apply for a visa. See here.
http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/03.html#c
That policy you cited looks like it just protects you from going the route that doesn't require a COE.
| jerkytheturkey wrote: |
| Employers are wary of foreigners that have no experience living in Japan. |
Some are, but many are not and will in fact go out of their way to hire only from abroad because they want naive greenhorns who do not know the score here.
| jerkytheturkey wrote: |
| A working holiday visa may be the answer to your problem. |
If he's eligible. But, bamboocactus is American and is not eligible for a WHV. |
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| jerkytheturkey wrote: |
Employers are wary of foreigners that have no experience living in Japan. From what I have read many foreigners have been sent home for different things, I'm guessing that this can have a negative impact on the employer which is why they may discriminate.
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Can you elaborate on this? Which foreigners were sent home for what things? I can't recall ever hearing that a lot of foreigners have been deported, unless they were overstayers or had other visa violations, or were involved in organised crime. These people tend to be from Asian countries rather than English-speaking countries, so I doubt this is a major reason for not hiring people without visas for English-teaching jobs.
I'm fairly certain that with most employers it's because they want someone who is already in Japan that they don't have to start looking for months in advance of the time they want the person to start, and in many cases because they just don't want the hassle of the paperwork. |
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jerkytheturkey
Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Apsara I have read similar stories to the one mentioned by seklarwia. There are a few reports of the same kind if you do a search on google. Maybe the use of 'many' was an over-statement. I just thought that it may be worth mentioning.
Your guess is obviously more educated than mine. |
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