Job Discussion Forums

[The Ever-changing Cleric]

[JGC458]

[evaforsure]

[Molson]

I like the issue of qualified versus unqualified ESL teachers. I want to point out that ESL is a bit different than say, teaching in an international school, or a public school in your home jurisdiction. The second option requires some type of government certification, which involves doing a program such as a B.Ed. So let's not get into the whole B.Ed thing.

For ESL teachers it is a bit different. Sure, many of the basics of teaching transfer no matter what you are teaching: rapport with students, classroom management, professionalism, being prepared and organized, good clear instructing ability, ability to engage students, etc.

What makes one qualified to teach ESL? On my teaching certification I took a course that enables me to teach ESL. Did that make me qualified? Hell no. It made me pass through a hoop in order to teach ESL in public schools. I would like to think 10 years of ESL experience made me qualified, but then, what is qualified?

I think the whole argument of qualified versus unqualified is moot when looking at ESL. A better discussion would be effective versus ineffective ESL teachers. What makes one effective, and what doesn't? As it has been pointed out, there are tons of people who get MA TESOL or MA Applied Linguistics and can't teach to save their lives.

Duboshi: this goes with your line of commenting I believe. Instead of looking at "qualifications" such as B.Ed, MA, M.Ed, etc. when it comes to ESL we should look at ability.

I like the comment about Jesus, but there is a loophole on that one. Being the Son of God, Jesus had abilities and knowledge that we could only dream to have. We study to learn more, but if Jesus is God and already knows everything, does he need to study? Thus, he can be looked at as being the perfect teacher. He certainly must have been an excellent orator, as back in the day people would gather to hear you speak. He had 1000s attend his teachings.

Let's not compare Jesus with realistic expectations of teachers.

[The Ever-changing Cleric]

[JGC458]

[Molson]

[evaforsure]

[JGC458]

[wangdaning]

People without engineering degrees run refineries, chemical plants, waste treatment plants....all over the world. Education helps, through practice and theory gained, but experience wins out.

An example:
I was a Chinese major, studied for 3 years. I find it hard to believe that my Chinese was better at that point than someone who had lived in China for three years (and tried to pick up Chinese). I've been here over a year and think I am probably hitting that level, but with more theory behind it. I can understand a little more of the patterns in the language and twist things around a little more, but it is about equal for practical use.

But I also spent two years after graduation not using Chinese at all, so maybe my example isn't perfect. I am just trying to point out that practice and theory provide different outcomes, and we should strive for both. I am sure better FTs without institutional qualifications try to gain knowledge of education theory, which with practical skills equals a qualification. Each case is different, so it is kind of stupid to post such a thread.

Plus, people could just lie and say they are qualified...

[evaforsure]

[JGC458]

[JGC458]

[Duboshi]

When I was reading Eva's earlier 'Jesus' post, I strongly felt that one line was missing: "Blessed are the cheese makers." She did a nice job pursuing that line of thought, although I, too, disagreed with the final summary, but not completely. Her line of reasoning, as it appears, is that people have a need to quantify people or put them into groups or categories. Going through a checklist and adding up brownie points is what people in some societies are trained to do, lacking any other means through which to assess the value of another person. Certainly this takes out most of the human aspects and qualities, which are not quite so definable.

A school is looking for a humourous teacher, for example. How does one qualify for that? How does one assess it? Is there a test for this? Someone else is looking for a teacher who loves children. How do you test that one? The qualities that might define a good teacher, for example, are not so quantifiable and so therefor many people who lack any qualities themselves in being able to judge to value of another simply go by what they see on a piece of paper (even if what is on the paper might be totally useless.)

Some people here have also raised the very valid point about qualifications in China versus other countries. In the U.K. people might look for that B.Ed.. In China, however, most people looking at your resume haven't got a clue what most things on your resume actually mean. This is provided they actually do look at it. Most HR personnel are more likely to look at the copies of your visa and/or passport, your age, and probably most importantly your picture.

I'm not longer qualified to continue my line of reasoning. I just got up and have had only one cup of coffee so far, and now I can't remember what I was going to say.

[wangdaning]