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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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 Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| seklarwia wrote: |
| What one panel might find an attractive quality in a candidate, another panel might not find to their taste, disregard or not even notice. |
Exactly. But that is explainable in that the panel is looking for people to be representatives of their city / area (because ***that*** doesn't lead to abuses, especially when not a single person on the panel is a human resources professional, and some may not even be aware of what is and is not legal to ask in an interview in that country [many people don't even seem to be aware that if you are interviewed in a job in Canada / the US that takes place in Japan, then it is the law of the country in which you interview which is the law you go by]. "It seems your poorly conceived plan carried out by rank amateurs somehow failed."-- paraphrasing Chief Wiggam). |
See, this is the sort of ill-informed garbage that gives JET a bad name. At most consulates, the interviews are conducted *on Japanese soil*. Japanese laws apply. Do most of the interviewers have HR backgrounds? No. In fact, I'm the only person with an HR background (in that I've spent 15+ years in international HR) that I've met at interviews in three countries. And you know what? It doesn't matter. Why? Because, *these days* (I know I keep repeating it, but you seem to refuse to believe that anything ever changes with JET) the interviewing procedures are so heavily structured that hiring experience isn't really all that important.
Is there variation? Sure. But so what? Does anyone honestly expect the exact same standards to be applied across 7000+ interviews globally?! But hey, feel free to tell us all about how much experience *you* have in global interview operations.  The point of the interviews is to give the applicants a chance to flesh out their app. JET has 20+ years of data driving their selection routines. They know what to look for and what to avoid, can predict reasonably accurately who will freak out, and who is just a punk on a lark.
The reality, whether you want to believe it or not, is that the JET hiring process is one of the most well structured mass hiring programs in the world. I honestly don't view it as a crapshoot these days. And similarly, these days, it's still the case that the most common reason for failing to get a place following interview is because the applicant sucked at that point. If you didn't suck then you'd be higher up the placement tables and have secured a spot. Sorry if that upsets people, but that's reality in the big wide world. |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
Exactly. But that is explainable in that the panel is looking for people to be representatives of their city / area |
Don't know if that really works in the UK though. Applicants get a choice of two interview locations. At either, you may be faced with a panel that has never even heard of your town/city/village, let alone know anything about it. So you may get turned down because you don't fit whatever they believe to be true of people from your area. |
If you honestly believe that then there's no point in even bothering to discuss the subject. 
Bit of thread drift going on, no? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| you may be faced with a panel that has never even heard of your town/city/village, let alone know anything about it. |
With a gazillion towns, villages, hamlets, and burgs in this world, what are the odds that someone will have heard of your hometown anyway, no matter who you interview with?
Geez, I think the above statement is pretty poorly conceived. The simple truth is this: don't apply, and your "crapshoot" percentages of being accepted are 100% easy to calculate: zero. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I don't know how interviews are organised in other countries so can only speak about the UK.
And my statement (in its entirety) is simply explaining why it is not feasible for a panel in either Edingburgh or London to be a good judge of who is a good represententive of their area, if that is indeed one of the criteria they want the JETs to fulfill.
In the US, does a panel cover a state? A major city? A corner of the country? I don't know. But I do know that unlike in London, there isn't a panel interviewing/judging people from, what is for many of us still considered, 3 seperate countries.
Besides, I never said not to apply. I said to give it a shot but to apply to other jobs as well. |
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cvmurrieta
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 209
Location: Sendai, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| The reality, whether you want to believe it or not, is that the JET hiring process is one of the most well structured mass hiring programs in the world. |
The consulate interview was well-organized. It was thoroughly enjoyable.
However, the CO was poorly organized. It has been for the most part not an enjoyable experience. I say this with the experience of having worked at other more organized Japanese workplaces.
But today is my last day so this workplace too will soon be history.
If only the people in my CO had been like the people in the LA consulate...... |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:53 am Post subject: |
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Okay, thanks, folks, for the answers.
It sounds like I shouldn't put all my eggs in one basket, that some committee might decide to pick another college grad with a bright gleam in his eye and a chipper attitude, even if I'm better-qualified.
If I finish college at the proper time, I'll still apply, but sounds like I shouldn't count on it, even with CELTA, years of experience, and Japanese knowledge.
As for those of you who didn't understand when my graduation date is, let me explain it this way -- I choose how many credit hours to take per semester. If I want to go to Japan quickly, I can take lots of credits per semester (like 15) and graduate very quickly, maybe a year, and be eligible to teach in Japan. Or I can take a half-time load. It's up to me how fast I want to go.
I think I should take it slow and apply for JET, because it sounds like it's superior to most eikaiwa jobs.
I plan to be in Japan for a while. Probably not just a year. I think if I get into JET and stay with it for the full five years, the year that I waited will come back to me in extra JET pay (6,000 extra dollars a year multiplied by five years).
Okay, so don't gamble on JET, but I might as well apply since the package is way better than an eikaiwa. Got it. Thanks. 
Oh, and I *WANT* to be in a small town or the countryside. After five years in Seoul, I don't think I ever want to live in a large, crowded city ever again! |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
Well, I don't know how interviews are organised in other countries so can only speak about the UK.
And my statement (in its entirety) is simply explaining why it is not feasible for a panel in either Edingburgh or London to be a good judge of who is a good represententive of their area, if that is indeed one of the criteria they want the JETs to fulfill. |
Well, you can't have a judge from every little hamlet. Gotta have limitations somewhere. JET staff themselves are limited in number.
| Quote: |
| In the US, does a panel cover a state? A major city? A corner of the country? I don't know. |
I think it may be per consulate or embassy. So, depending on how many of those there are, a person will have an option for several cities, but they'll probably choose the closest. |
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cvmurrieta
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 209
Location: Sendai, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| At least from my interview and the emails that I got from the JET Alumni Association prior to the interview (I had signed up for the email newsletter a couple of years before applying), many former JETs are used for interviews at the consulates or embassies (sorry if I am stating something that has already been said) |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| cvmurrieta wrote: |
| The consulate interview was well-organized. It was thoroughly enjoyable. |
I agree with the above statement. I interviewed for a JET ALT position at the Japanese consulate in New York City in February 2007.
My interview was very straightforward. The interview panel asked a question, I gave a thoughtful answer. Repeat process. There were no Mickey Mouse questions that were thrown in to try to stump me or see what "novelty answers" I could come up with. The very first question that I was asked was "why do you want to join the JET Programme?" They asked about the professional experiences that I mentioned in my application. They also asked me about the teaching methods I would apply in the classroom to get shy Japanese students to speak and participate. Furthermore, they asked me about my interest in learning the Japanese language once I arrived in country. I thought it was a fair interview and I actually enjoyed it.
I passed the interview and got in. I will begin my third year as a JET ALT in Shizuoka prefecture next week.
I will further G Cthulhu's sentiments. I didn't feel that my interview was a crapshoot at all. I felt I did well on the interview by providing the interviewing panel with thoughtful and thorough answers. I expressed a solid desire to teach in Japan. I emphasized my ability to live abroad and cope with a new culture and language; I feel that not knowing Japanese was actually a strike against me but I also feel that I made up for this strike by showing a very strong interest in learning and studying the language. I am making good on that now.
As for people claiming that the interview process is a crapshoot, I don't know where people are getting this from. This seems to be the stuff of hearsay and urban legend and sour grapes. This crapshoot idea gets thrown around a lot but no one really ever provides any substantial basis to back up and justify this other than the tired statement of "I have a friend who is an experienced teacher and he didn't get in and I have a friend who..."
Naturally, there are a number of websites and blogs specifically detailing preparation for the JET interview. If one gets an interview slot, it would behoove one to do a Google search on "JET Programme interview" or the like and get a feel for the interview process that way. Here are two examples:
http://www.internationalcenter.umich.edu/swt/work/resources/jettips.html
http://www.karatethejapaneseway.com/all_about_japan/jet_interview.html
Regards,
fat_chris |
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Mosley
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 158
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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As an ex-JET(so there are no accusations of "sour grapes"), I admit I'm still undecided as to where I belong between the rival camps of "it's a crapshoot" and "it's a structured interview process." I DO believe that the purpose of the interview is to flesh out your "character": just as, if not more so, important as one's qualifications & experience. Over the last few years, I've had three colleagues/friends that I felt would've made fine JETs. I encouraged them to apply and they did. Not one was accepted!
Now, it should be said that one of them said he had "aced" the interview. This guy has bit of a high opinion of himself-I warned him against haughtiness in the interview-and could this have been picked up on by the panel? Who knows?
Another admitted he couldn't answer, "Who's the PM of Japan?'' & "What are the four main islands of Japan?". Obviously, this had to have hurt him. More so if he had just said something like"I'm really interested in Japan" or something to that effect.
I met a guy in Korea once who said he'd been turned down by JET. He was a Japanese major(and he wasn't BSing-his Japanese was crackerjack) but he had the personality of a turnip-bland even by Japanese standards.
Last edited by Mosley on Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
The reality, whether you want to believe it or not, is that the JET hiring process is one of the most well structured mass hiring programs in the world. I honestly don't view it as a crapshoot these days. And similarly, these days, it's still the case that the most common reason for failing to get a place following interview is because the applicant sucked at that point. If you didn't suck then you'd be higher up the placement tables and have secured a spot. Sorry if that upsets people, but that's reality in the big wide world. |
So what about all the JETs that are failiing first time round. Many JETs that I have spoken to and many JETs on the JET Forums have said they were accepted on the 2nd or 3rd attempt. Maybe some of them went out and tried to do things that might make themselves better candidates but definately not all. Some of the ones I know simply stayed to do their masters. One lived at home with parents whilst working a retail job in Pilot, just to help out the family in the meantime. The fact that these people got accepted later kinda suggests that rather than sucking before, there was just too many other good candidates when they first applied.
| Quote: |
The point of the interviews is to give the applicants a chance to flesh out their app. JET has 20+ years of data driving their selection routines. They know what to look for and what to avoid, can predict reasonably accurately who will freak out, and who is just a punk on a lark.
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I have also had the pleasure of knowing one amazing ex-JET who got accepted fresh out of uni, enjoyed his time immensely, came back to the UK and wanted out again. But he had to wait 8 years before he could apply to JET again, so he studied hard got his masters, got JLPT 1, did TEFL, got loads of great teaching experience in Europe... then got turned flat by JET. He is definately a guy that doesn't fit your desciption of people that need to be weeded out. Now he works for Interac...
I didn't understand what exactly was meant by "crapshoot" which is why I didn't use it. But whilst I don't truely believe that the interview process is crap, I still stand by my belief that many people are turned down for reasons other than simply sucking at the interviews and that competition for JET is fiercer now more than ever.
If people have the time to, they should most certainly apply for JET. But people need to realise that they can be amazing candidates, with great qualifications, experience living abroad, etc, but none of that will guarentee you a spot on JET. Apply, but apply elsewhere too. |
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ssjup81
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 664
Location: Adachi-ku, Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| So what about all the JETs that are failiing first time round. Many JETs that I have spoken to and many JETs on the JET Forums have said they were accepted on the 2nd or 3rd attempt. Maybe some of them went out and tried to do things that might make themselves better candidates but definately not all. Some of the ones I know simply stayed to do their masters. One lived at home with parents whilst working a retail job in Pilot, just to help out the family in the meantime. The fact that these people got accepted later kinda suggests that rather than sucking before, there was just too many other good candidates when they first applied. |
That could be a possibility. One person I know of who was rejected this year, who I just knew would get in, had a lot of decent credentials and experience. If I recall correctly, he didn't even get an interview. I didn't get an interview either, and I have over ten years of tutoring experience (though, unofficial), a little experience at assistant teaching, was recognized for Teacher of the Week at the school I was assisting at, and even study Japanese. I was surprised that didn't get me an interview...unless it was my SoP. I was actually expecting that if I was to get rejected, it would be because of the interview.
For the most part, it wouldn't surprise me if it is like you said. Some candidates are good, but they go with the ones who are better. I mean, they do have a point system to my knowledge.
| Quote: |
| I have also had the pleasure of knowing one amazing ex-JET who got accepted fresh out of uni, enjoyed his time immensely, came back to the UK and wanted out again. But he had to wait 8 years before he could apply to JET again, so he studied hard got his masters, got JLPT 1, did TEFL, got loads of great teaching experience in Europe... then got turned flat by JET. He is definately a guy that doesn't fit your desciption of people that need to be weeded out. Now he works for Interac... |
In his case, it might be because he was over qualified, unless he was going for a CIR position. I guess for an ALT position, they don't want the actual ALT to know more than the actual ELT. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| ssjup81 wrote: |
One person I know of who was rejected this year, who I just knew would get in, had a lot of decent credentials and experience. If I recall correctly, he didn't even get an interview. I didn't get an interview either, and I have over ten years of tutoring experience (though, unofficial), a little experience at assistant teaching, was recognized for Teacher of the Week at the school I was assisting at, and even study Japanese. I was surprised that didn't get me an interview...unless it was my SoP. I was actually expecting that if I was to get rejected, it would be because of the interview.
For the most part, it wouldn't surprise me if it is like you said. Some candidates are good, but they go with the ones who are better. I mean, they do have a point system to my knowledge. |
ummm....
www.bigdaikon.com
JET discussion board. Now known for its rancour, in-fighting and sometimes just racist attitudes. Though, to be fair, there are still some sporadic attempts at things non-juvenile there. I once knew a JET who wasn't able to correctly identify the capital city of his/her OWN country.
They DO have a points system. The application package tells you what they are looking for in the paper application. If you aren't getting an interview then the problem is simply not getting the paperwork in the right order in time. Your SoP needs to explain what YOU can do for JET not what JET/Japan can do for you.
Not all JETs are like the bigdaikon crowd. I'd say by far most aren't. But the fact is that almost every single person on bigdaikon is or was a JET and that shows that relying on the point system isn't necessarily working- the level of immaturity amongst JETs has increased since I arrived in Japan.
Last edited by GambateBingBangBOOM on Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ssjup81
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 664
Location: Adachi-ku, Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
ummm....
www.bigdaikon.com
JET discussion board. Now known for its rancour, in-fighting and sometimes just racist attitudes. Though, to be fair, there are still some sporadic attempts at things non-juvenile there. |
I actually dislike that site. I hang on the official JET forum and ITIL.
| Quote: |
| I once knew a JET who wasn't able to correctly identify the capital city of his/her OWN country. |
That's just sad...seriously.
| Quote: |
| They DO have a points system. The application package tells you what they are looking for in the paper application. If you aren't getting an interview then the problem is simply not getting the paperwork in the right order in time. Your SoP needs to explain what YOU can do for JET not what JET/Japan can do for you. |
I know this too (what you can do for JET, not the opposite). I did write that and my papers were in the right order, as I double checked before mailing it out. I still feel that my SoP was kind of weak, though. I plan on rewriting it, if it turns out I'm going to reapply this year.
As it's been stated, no one knows why some people make it and others don't. It's still a mysterious process, especially for those who reapply. You know, someone might get an interview first time around, get rejected or become an alternate (never upgraded), apply the next year, and don't even get an interview or something. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| ssjup81 wrote: |
someone might get an interview first time around, get rejected or become an alternate (never upgraded), apply the next year, and don't even get an interview or something. |
That's true, but it's FAR more likely that someone who applies, gets on the alternate list and never upgraded will make the short list or be at the very top of the alternate list and then upgraded. You have to make it clear that you applied the year before, and that you have done X,Y and Z to improve your application and it will show that you are REALLY making a commitment to doing JET. Someone who has been trying to get a temporary job for two years is very unlikely to quit on them part way through a contract.
In my four years on JET, I met MANY JETs who had applied twice (first time alternate, didn't get upraded, then short-listed or alternate at the top, DID get upgraded)- and one who applied THREE TIMES (1. no interview, 2. alternate not upgraded 3. short list). Every single juvenile idiot (and the juvenile idiot's alter-ego: the self-important pompous ass) I met in JET was someone who was short-listed immediately. People who applied more than once were very likely to stay more than a year (after all, they spent more than a year applying). |
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