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evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
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 Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| A better offer is no excuse, at least not a legitimate one. |
I feel the obligation is to oneself as surely the business ethics of china dictates this kind of behavior for all parties involved ... |
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Lorean
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 476
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Don't quote me, but less than I year ago I believe that a new law was passed which said that there was mandatory minimum 1-month probation period on all FT contracts. So, legally speaking both sides may terminate the contract on the first day of work.
With regards to Chinese business ethics, paraphrasing Gandhi "I think they would be a good idea." Before you feel guilty about your school consider the following:
* If the school signed on a cheaper FT, they would boot you at the last minute.
* They have undoubtedly engaged in shady activities to keep themselves in business. |
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danielb
Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Don't quote me, but less than I year ago I believe that a new law was passed which said that there was mandatory minimum 1-month probation period on all FT contracts. |
No there wasn't. |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Your Work Permit/Letter of Invitation used to obtain your Z visa is two parts.
The school sent you the bottom portion. The top portion (look carefully, see the top is perforated) is held by the school.
When you arrive in China and your documents are submitted, your employer will be asked to submit that other portion of the Letter of Invitation with matching serial numbers to prove you are going to be working for the employer who issued you that invitation letter. |
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AlexB
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| Lorean wrote: |
Don't quote me, but less than I year ago I believe that a new law was passed which said that there was mandatory minimum 1-month probation period on all FT contracts. So, legally speaking both sides may terminate the contract on the first day of work.
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Not so sure about that law, but article 37 (Chapter 4, Discharge and Termination of Labor Contracts) of the Labour Contract Law clearly states (direct quote) "A worker may discharge the labor contract if he informs the employer in written form 30 days in advance. During the probation period, a worker may discharge the labor contract if he informs the employer 3 days in advance".
So if you've a probation period, you can be out by day 3, otherwise, or post probation, at any point with 30 days notice. Importantly, nowhere does it states that a special reason must be given for employee termination of the contract, just 30 days notice. Legally speaking. |
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Katja84
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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I have a similar problem and I'm also curious what the deal is - I have the papers for the Z-visa but I have just realized I have been sent an invitation letter that requires me to apply for the visa in Helsinki, and I live in the UK. I cannot afford to go to Helsinki (let alone stay there for the three days required for the visa to be issued), nor do I have the time as I am currently trying to submit an MA thesis.
I am still trying to find a visa service, but it appears impossible to find one. I cannot get the invitation letter changed to the UK (even if I found a way, it would take so long that plane tickets would become unaffordable in the meantime).
If you have not yet been issued your Z-visa, is a school still likely to put you on a black-list? |
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AlexB
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| Helsinki not have a postal application? |
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Katja84
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| AlexB wrote: |
| Helsinki not have a postal application? |
Unfortunately not - they used to take postal applications but I guess then they decided that would make it much too easy for foreigners to get in to China  |
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Howie
Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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So the answers to my original question seem to be;
A) I have a moral obligation to work for the school
B) I have a legal obligation to work for the school
C) I can resign after 3 days
D) I can email them ASAP and tell them that I won't be coming
E) I'll have to hit up my new potential employer to start all the work for a new Z visa
F) Employees in China can be terminated for any reason at any time, so if I want to walk away, I'm within my rights to do so.
I knew there would be no simple answer.
Thanks for all the input so far. |
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waxwing
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 719
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Hansen wrote: |
| This apparently is not important to people who ask questions of this sort; however, you did sign a contract. A contract is ... |
... something which can be terminated as long as you stick to the agreed notice period.
Usually 1 or 2 months.
Do you think they would stop and think for one moment if it suited them to boot you out? No, they would stick to the agreed terms (if you're lucky!), give you notice, and then kick you out. Cuts both ways.
A year or two back I had to get out of a contract (for pretty good reasons, but in the end, my OWN reasons), I waited out the 2 months notice. It cost me a pretty penny to do that, as it happened, but I stuck to it. Obviously it is never ideal to ditch a teaching job during the academic year, tough on the pupils, but sometimes these things have to be done. I suggest you tone down the preaching, Hansen. |
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damasseur
Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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I've got a question about contracts...
Lets say I sign a contract with a school today but I wont start teaching until the 1st of September....
Can a school terminate a signed contract even before the teacher starts teaching?
Thank you |
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Duboshi
Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 11
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:22 am Post subject: |
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I want to throw in a few thoughts here. Of course, they are purely opinions.
Anyone who breaks a contract is doing a disservice to all FTs in this country to a very small extent at least. I think the OP is looking for enough sympathy to make him/herself feel better about what he/she inevitably wants to do anyway and looking for justification for somewhat the he/she knows is wrong. No offense to the OP - I am sure all of us have had to struggle with our ethics at one point or another.
If enough FTs break their contracts and causing financial loss to the employers, it would stand to reason that these employers would have less available income for future employees. They might also dislike the FT population as a whole much more and treat them more badly as a result. Either way is hurts others even to a small extent.
The best way to treat such a situation is just to say to them, "Look, I made a mistake. If I have caused you financial losses with your holding a seat warm for me and withholding that same seat from other people looking for work, then, please, allow me to reimburse you your losses."
I don't really know how I would handle that situation myself, but I do know I would try and solve it as amicably as possible, allowing both sides to feel good after the fact. Better yet, however, I would try not to get myself into that situation in the first place. |
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