Job Discussion Forums

[nasir]

Guys help?

[Glenski]

1. oral interview, if possible. You ask questions, they ask, too.

2. Never been to Brazil, so I hope you get answers from people teaching there. Why get a degree in biology, then before you even work in the field decide to switch to TEFL?

3. Again, ask the Brazil teachers.

4. Depends on what sort of courses you teach.

[nasir]

not helpful..

[spiral78]

1. For private students, how do i quickly/easily assess a new student's skill level without giving them a big exam?

I would worry less about what their level is and more about what their goals are for learning. You can focus your initial interview around questions like 'Tell me about your English study in the past" "How/when do you use your English" "What do you want to improve" "What are your goals for studying with me"
This will give you a good idea of the learner's level and how to focus your lessons to meet his/her needs.


2. As I am a newbie and will be learning more and more about the language myself as I go along, what is the easiest and simplest way to start out teaching without having months/years of training and knowledge?

Morally speaking, you should really take an entry level course, whether it will be required by employers in Brazil or not. CELTA is the name brand, but there are generic courses that fit the basic standard of 100+hours on site, including teaching practice with actual students. Online options don't cut it.
Think about it - you are expecting students to pay hard-earned money for your services - you owe them some actual knowledge about how languages are learned and taught, from day one.

I suggest you might try to find an entry-level course in the country where you want to start teaching.

3. Also general tips on pvt tuition; sounds stupid but where do i set and how far from the student?

I usually choose a corner of the table and sit at right angles to the student.

4. How to fit in listening, writing exercises which are more time consuming in class for the student? Are the cutting edge books already organised for this?
Writing is often done as homework.

Overall, I don't want to be discouraging, but the days of native speakers with zero training being welcomed with open arms as 'teachers' are largely over. The vast majority of newbies on most job markets (I can't speak for Brazil here) have the certification I've described above. I have to say I really think you owe it to any potential students to get at least basic training.

Good luck:)

[Glenski]

[nasir]

hey thanks

[spiral78]

do think I can get the knowledge for free from reading, studying however the experience is another thing. So I was planning on giving lessons at first at a heavily discounted rate.
I do not think having a TEFL/CELTA is somehow going to make you better than someone who is self taught. I do not necc. need an individual to remind me what a past perfect.

Just to be really clear:

It's not a matter of someone to remind you what the past perfect is...it's a matter of someone helping you to see the different ways that past perfect - and a vast amount of other linguistic items - can effectively be taught.

All in all, you'll see if the market in Brazil will support an untrained teacher...if the worst case comes, and you can't find work, then hopefully you'll have the funds to seek the training you need to compete effectively on the job market.

[santi84]

nasir,

I do not have a great deal of experience myself, but I would strongly recommend that you make the time and effort to take a basic teacher training course such as CELTA. Perhaps you should attempt to get in some volunteer hours at a local ESL class (community services?) before you leave - they are usually eager for volunteers. You might find it to be far more difficult than it appears.

To say that you can learn how to become a teacher through books (self-taught) is like saying you can learn biology in the same method. Yes, you can define some basic terms such as "past perfect" or "cell", but it is far more complicated. Volunteering in a classroom will likely drive that point home.

[nickpellatt]

I dont think asking about the unrelated degree was unfair to be honest. You were the one who mentioned it intially, before clearly stating you have no experience or training in EFL, and are not intending to take any either. I think its kinda natural to ask why? I guess its fair to say you worked hard to obtain your degree, so why turn your back on it so quickly, and why arent you prepared to put any work into 'learning' EFL?

Anyway ... I expect its a moot point ... for you if not for us

The advice about trying to get some volunteer experience is a good one, again, I would guess because of the time scale you are working too, that isnt likely to happen either. So it would seem the training and experience will both be out of the question.

I have to say ... I do think you could be in for a 'challenging' experience! As Spiral mentions, perhaps you can see if the local market is prepared to take and fund a teacher without experience or qualifications, but I think that could be a risk for you. My experience with privates is limited, but the ones I have done, I have found quite hard! You need a lot of material that has to meet their needs quickly and effectively, and if it doesnt, they will spot that very quickly too! I dont know the market there, but Im sure it isnt like Asia, where some people 'may' pay just because of the novelty of talking to a foreigner, and having simple conversation classes.

I would suggest the best option for you (and its one you have mentioned) is in talking to language schools, and trying to find an opening and work within an organisation that may also offer support, training, guidance and regular work with a regular wage.

I did start without training, but it was initially as a volunteer, within a school, and in a country that is arguably easier because of the fascination with white skin and English speakers. That first experience, and the subsequent jobs were a lot harder than I thought ... and I have to say, the value of the teaching training course I have since completed is very clear to anyone who watches my classes. I also feel a lot happier in class, because I actually have a clear idea about what Im doing now ... Im nowhere near the finished article, but the course has helped point me in the right direction.

If it isnt something you want to do now ... I would advise you to keep a course in mind, and if you intend to stay in EFL, it is money well spent IMO.

Before then, the best thing you can do is join a school. To give you the best chance of enjoying a good experience rather than enduring a bad one, working within an organisation is going to be a real boon I would say. My impression of private work is that it is quite hard to gain a real toe hold in the market, and cancellations and unreliable clients are common place ... add to this your disadvantage of not having experience or qualifications, and finding private clients to fund your trip may be very difficult. People will enrol with a school due to their credibility, and you can clock up experience on the back of their reputation. Its the best route for you, Im sure of that.

Im not sure reading books will be enough to prepare you ... but if thats the route you wish to take then I would recommend 'Learning Teaching' by Jim Scrivener. I really like that book, and whilst it wont replace experience and training, it will represent value for money and teach you something.

If you are determined to teach privately ... then I would also direct you to the Guardian Weekly website. Google it. If you sign up, which is just an email address and password, you can access their English lessons. I have used some in classroom settings and quite like them, but they also have lesson plans and material which has been designed as self study material for students with worksheets and exercises. These could provide a structure for private lessons I reckon.

Your initial post in intriguing really ... Id be keen to hear how this works out for you, and I do hope it works out well. You say all the right things, an appreciation for teaching, that you realise speaking English isnt the same as teaching it, and that you arent taking it lightly ... all things you mention in your first post.

Then you mention you are moving to Brazil permanently, and intend to work on a self employed basis and wont be investing in any training beforehand LOL. Talk about taking on a challenge!

[santi84]

Those are some great points nick. OP, do you have a substantial amount of money to support yourself? Although the prospect of privates seems promising (even at an average rate, let alone a "discount" rate), it is quite risky and unstable, especially for someone with no teaching qualifications or experience. You may get students that are flakes, and skip out on lessons with no notice. You may also get students that drop out because you are not able to teach them. Trust me, if a student is unhappy with your private lessons, they WILL let you know that they aren't impressed - either verbally or by not showing up for the next lesson.

That being said, my first volunteer gig in 2002 was with a group of Brazilian teens in Canada. They were very fiesty and full of life! I loved them.

[nasir]

thanks again

[nasir]

thanks

[nickpellatt]

I wouldnt chance it with private lessons. I know what you mean about not being able to take training courses etc, they are quite expensive...and the type of training course we mention, CELTA etc, are really only entry level courses...they only really open the door to knowledge and training, rather than give you the complete package.

For a perfectionist, be prepared to make a lot of mistakes en-route. Possibly more if you just leap in...its kinda like, you cant afford to take the course, but taking a bold leap and landing in a faraway country, can you afford not to go fully prepared, trained, and with cash to save your bacon just incase.

I first entered an EFL classroom in Spring 2006, I have worked in two schools in China, and 3 student organisations in the UK, I have two worthless online certs, and I have also completed a Trinity course in the last 12 months...Im STILL a newbie...and I make mistakes all the time! And sometimes, I hate to admit it ... but it has been known for my students to know so much grammar etc, that they can point out my mistakes too! If you really are a perfectionist, you will have to swallow your pride a lot initially.

This newbie forum is often littered with my posts requesting help / info and clarification on grammar points.

I work with a lot of new teachers now...some arent qualified either. In honesty, I share breaks with some of them and I have seen happier, less stressed people in all sorts of environments. In truth, it ISNT an easy job, and I rarely, if ever ... meet people new to it, who can do it well. That includes teachers from UK state schools who dont have EFL experience.

I guess what Im saying is if people here in the UK find it a struggle to cope with a summer job teaching in their home towns, when they (may) live with their parents and not have any real worries...imagine how it could be in a foreign country when performing, and performing well, is the difference between keeping the job and paying the rent.

I dont want to say you cant do it, that it cant be done...but it wont be easy. give yourself every chance possible...dont set goals you cant reach, dont bank on jobs you cant be sure of, and dont leap totally into the unknown without a backup plan...even if that means staying home at bit longer to save/get experience/get some training

[Glenski]

[nasir]

ok