Job Discussion Forums

[lucreziaborgia]

I have been made 2 offers of ESL jobs in KSA and turned both down due to a belief that all is not as it seems with recruiters.
Are they all as slack as the 2 I have had dealings with? Or was I merely unlucky?
I'm liaising with a third now who seems dubious due to his lack of attention to detail - he asked me questions that are detailed on my CV
that I must assume is in front of me as we spoke - and - if his responses
to my responses are any indication of his worldiness - I could be forgiven for thinking he has never left the comfort of his homeland. ( A comfortable locale.)
I am teaching ESL as a second career and have spent 3 years in a delightful and developing country that has something of a bad rap in some circles.
I am reluctant to leave here to work in KSA due to the seeming incompetence of the recruiters I have experienced to date.
I understand that KSA is not an easy place in which to live and work (I am female) and the incompetence of the recruiters I have experienced so far does not give me confidence.
I am particularly concerned about the non-delivery of contractual undertakings such as appropriate housing, transport, holiday and sick pay and no pay. Some contributors to this discussion indicate that it is easy to simply resign and leave the country without a problem whereas the opposite would seem to be the case. I understand one's passport is held and an exit visa is required to leave the country which in turn, depends on authorisation from one's employer. I understand also, that getting the
appropriate visa is an issue.
The decision to work in KSA is a difficult one for obvious reasons and made more so through by the lack of professionalism of recruitment companies.
I'd appreciate some positive commentary about living and working in KSA.
Anyone out there?

[rigel]

[johnslat]

Dear rigel.
"Some contributors to this discussion indicate that it is easy to simply resign and leave the country without a problem . . . ."


Whoever posted that was full of something or other.

Regards,
John

[rigel]

He'd be full of whatever it is teachers find themselves full of when they beg for their passports back from keepers in many places in the KSA. If he begs hard enough, it may be quite easy indeed.

[Mia Xanthi]

I never saw anyone able to "beg" their way out, and I saw people in desperate circumstances needing to get home to sick loved ones, or needing to get sick loved ones home. Expect to be met with big crocodile tears when you go to beg, and then for nothing whatsoever to be done regarding your situation. There's a lot of pretend compassion out there....don't believe any of it for a minute.

[desultude]

I knew one guy who was told he could leave (the admin said they understood his circumstances, etc.) and when he got to the border his exit visa had been canceled by the university. Ultimately he had to pay the university $6000 US for the privilege of leaving.

They don't f#%k around over there!

[Charybdis]

I lived in KSA two years, and although my passport was never held (I've heard some places do hold them, however), I never felt "free" to resign at any time. Our contracts had a 3-month notice provision, or we had to pay a two months' salary penalty, and it was collected from some people. Also, I know one person who gave notice (not 3 months), checked out, went to the border, and discovered that the Saudis had called and had his visa cancelled. Faculty with terminally ill family members also were told they'd have to serve out their contract or pay the penalty and forfeit their accrued bonus--and that was after two years of service. Still others who needed emergency or bereavement leave had visa issues and could not leave the country. Generally speaking, it was hell--you couldn't trust anyone and lived in a constant state of fear. About 6-8 of our faculty pulled runners, sometimes with family members, just to get out of there. That was the only alternative to giving 3-months' notice. They're also making staff who leave have someone sign that they will be financially responsible for up to the equivalent of one month's salary. At our institution they're talking about extending this policy to faculty.

[Middle East Beast]

I've been to Saudi Arabia on several contracts over the past 15 years. What I've read here supports my notion that things are getting much worse for foreign workers in KSA.

Several years ago I had a unexpected death in the family. The Saudis in charge of the program at Khafji Joint Operations refused to allow me to push my final departure date by 10 days so I could return home and handle funeral arrangements. This behavior from a culture that claims to put FAMILY first.

During my most recent experience there (with STA/SDT) there were at least three runners, two terminations (one of those was outrageously unfair), and a resignation (me). I was "detained" by the Saudi authorities for four days in Riyadh despite assurances by STA that my exit visa would be ready before my planned departure date. I was at the mercy of the Saudis with no help from STA, which by the way is safely nestled in DUBAI, not KSA. STA ignored my pleas for assistance. STA even went so far as to claim they'd arranged for my transportation to the airport when I was finally allowed to leave. That transport never showed up. I had to hustle to find a taxi at the last minute to make my flight. I emailed STA afterward, but I was ignored again .

That's the final straw for me. I'll go to the UAE or Oman, but K.S.A. is O.U.T.

[EFLUndercover]

[Sheikh N Bake]

Ooh, good boxing metaphors. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

[Charybdis]

Yes, I think it's getting worse in KSA from what everyone has told me about what it was like even a few years ago. Our faculty that had family and health problems at home were treated miserably, and had to fight to get out with cash in hand. Two faculty members were "docked" a month's salary each restroactively at the end of their 2-year contract because the university had "overpaid" them the first summer. They were told they should have only received a month's pay, although they were paid for two months (which probably was right, although taking it out at the end with no advance notice was downright incompetent, if not mean-spirited).

There's Saudi labor law, and then there's what actually happens to foreigners. For example, I know a Canadian nurse who was stuck in KSA 4 years because of a change of employers. The new employer didn't want to honor the terms of the predecessor employer, alhtough they'd taken over her contract. She had to hire a lawyer and sue. Although she ultimately prevailed, being stuck there 4 years without leaving was a dreadful experience.

Really people who work in KSA must realize that as a foreign worker, even a Westerner, you have very little freedom and even fewer rights. When Saudis want to play nasty, they can do so quite easily and effectively. You will have more in common with the other imported foreign workers than you ever will with the Saudi overlords. No one ever accepts responsibility, says they're sorry, or delegates authority. Just doesn't happen there.

I have to say that having had this experience, however, I'll be better prepared for other ME countries. I have enjoyed traveling in the region, and learning about Islamic cultures. There is a HUGE difference, obviously, from country to country and religious group to religious group, and lumping them all together is a mistake we Westerners often make. I'm just glad to have gotten out of KSA intact and ultimately with everything I was owed. It was a nightmare, and only got worse instead of better as time went on and other faculty members pulled runners. Those of us who stuck it out paid the price.

[destionable]

I totally agree that working conditions for all workers have deteriorated in the Kingdom. I have quoted myself as saying this: " Your problems start the moment your plane touches down in the KSA and they stop only 1/2 hr after taking off from Saudi soil...I say 1/2 hr because your plane could be ordered to turn around and go back...if you're unfortunate enough to be traveling on Saudi Airlines."

[Charybdis]

That about sums it up, really. I know my colleagues and I who left were just glad to get out (we were about 85-90% of those up for renewal--and nearly 98% if you excluded those who had to renew because their spouses had positions in KSA--I know only one person who "voluntarily" renewed. for the money, and even he was "rethinking" the situation). Many us had had prior experience working in KSA, and all of us had worked in several different foreign countries. We all agreed that our situation degenerated rather than improved over time.

[trapezius]

I think no one paid attention to the OP's request:

[Middle East Beast]

Oh, I paid attention.