Job Discussion Forums

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

I pulled the quote, "It's best not to complain" from a post by Mike L. involving westgate. The quote is attributed to a poster on the job discussion journal.

The quote fascinates me because it seems to be the secret of being able to put up with Japan for long periods of time. I also think it is the single most important factor in how employers rate us as employees.

What are your thoughts?

homersimpson · Joined: 14 Feb 2003 Posts: 569 Location: Kagoshima

From a cultural standpoint complaining, especially in the workplace, is frowned upon by the Japanese. That certainly doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it is not considered as acceptable practice, most notably from the underlings (or kohai if you prefer). And whether any of us want to accept it or not, gaijin are always the kohai. Therefore, any complaining by us is seen as affirming the stereotype of the obnoxious and boisterous foreigner.

cangel · Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 74 Location: Jeonju, South Korea

Get pissed with your sempais and then complain. Ahh, alcohol, the social lubricant...

Celeste · Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:58 am Post subject:

I never complain. Instead I ask for advice. " ________-sensei, can you help me? I need your advice. I am worried about class 5-2. What should I do? They are not learning much English because they are too noisy for me to teach them? Do you think I should talk to their homeroom teacher?" Next day, class 5-2 is magically well behaved.

"____________-sensei, class 5-2 was so good today, I am so relieved. Thank you so much. Can I make you a cup of coffee?"

It may sound like sucking up, but everyone loves to be asked for advice. No one likes listening to constant whining.

azarashi sushi · Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 562 Location: Shinjuku

That's very sensible advice Celeste... I agree that most people do not want to hear other people's complaints. I don't think it is just a Japanese thing either... People are the same everywhere in the world. It's human nature. We don't like whingers!

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

Azarashi sushi--

I turned down a job with Westgate precisely because they didn't seem to care about their teachers' personal happiness--or so I gathered from reading their employee manual/rule book. Why did it matter to me? Because if I am not happy outside my job, my unhappiness may well start affecting me on the job. Job performance goes down, students suffer, etc. I sensed that Westgate didn't see, or didn't care about, the connection between personal happiness and job performance. I value my own happiness an awful lot, and any company that doesn't isn't worth my time.

Ooops--sorry, Guest of Japan, for the tangent...

d

p.s. By the way--I didn't post that quote that Azarashi Sushi copied & pasted--I just have a strong opinion about it, that's all.

azarashi sushi · Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 562 Location: Shinjuku

Denise... Don't get me wrong... I think it's really great if a company does care about its employee's personal lives. I'm just saying that it's not really their responsibility. Yes, if you're unhappy in your personal life it will affect your performance but there are other places/people to go to for help... not the company president.

Exactly what does the Westgate handbook say regarding their lack of concern for employee's personal problems?

Brooks · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1369 Location: Sagamihara

I think what employers want more is people who stay later at our jobs.
Even if you are up in the office, not being productive.

I think enkais are needed because there is BS that we have to put up with. We need a time to vent.
I used to work at a junior high, but they almost never had enkais. We just had to put up and shut up. I prefer being at a high school where I get to gripe from time to time.

I don`t think complaining per se is bad. Especially when it comes from teachers who are looking for better ways for doing things,　and who work hard.
It comes down to the way it is phrased.

I do think that since I lived on a military base for a year, I got used to being in a situation where I just had to deal with it and keep my gripes to myself. That experience helped me live in Japan.

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Thanks for your comments and tangents everyone. I think homersimpson hit one of the main points early with the kohai theory. With that said however, I see that Japanese underlings are given much more support than the foreigners usually are.

I also agree that enkais are valuable. Unfortunately my current school doesn't have many because the Japanese teachers usually work from 7:30 to 10:00.

In my current school everyone is happy with me because I bite my tongue as often as possible. I honestly don't feel like I've been a very successful teacher at all.

In my old big eikaiwa job I was less restrained with my voice. I had a few problems in the beginning. Eventually they tolerated me and kept renewing my contract because I was very very successful at making them money. Nonetheless, I was not under any consideration for advancement in the company. A colleague, who I trained, was not nearly as successful in the classroom as I was and yet he was under consideration for advancement because he never voiced an opinion.

These experienced are where I draw my ideas from.

Brooks · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1369 Location: Sagamihara

a friend that used to teach in Kyushu said that flattery works, and I think people who kiss ass can get ahead. But I don`t want to be like that.
I give omiyage to some people. If you want someone to do a favor, omiyage works.
Where I work, I can complain, but the question is where and how.
With beer it is ok or in the teacher`s room. But that`s it.
It certainly helps that I can get along with my boss.

At my school, we have had a problem with turnover, so I wonder if the best I can do is to be able to supervise foreign teachers in the future.
Biting your tongue can work, but at some point you`ll get sick of it.
I have seen it happen with two teachers, and after three years or so they quit.
For me, I can complain some but they let it slide, since I don`t get complaints about my teaching, I get along with people, I go to the enkais, and I learn Japanese.
And I stay later at school.

essequam · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 7 Location: Japan

Japanese people I work with at public junior high school often put rice crackers or little cakes on my desk and/ or on the desk of people in their section. To me it looks like they are putting food out for their pet cat and is annoying but I think they do it to maintain good worker relations. I don't want to have to keep buying presents for people just because it is a way of crawling to them. I guess this is why I don't get very far.
Also, when I worked in a small eikaiwa the male teachers often found it easy to flirt with the office staff, usually female. This helped them maintain a reputation as a good teacher.
I suggest instead of complaining, flirt or buy presents. Shocked

4nic8r · Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 68

I don't know if I would go to the head teacher or boss unless the situation got really out of control.. for the reason being that YOU as the teacher should be able to control your classroom.. if you have no classroom management skills, you're in for a lot of trouble... it takes a long time to learn though, but after you set your rules in a class, make sure they are followed or else kids will run all over you.. I use the homeroom teachers as a last resort... what I do however, is keep in contact with them throughout the week and talk about the kids in their class, so I and they know if any problems are occuring... it seems much better than going down all red in the face and complaining...

about other things though, scheduling etc. I tend not to complain to much unless its really messed up or they screw up so royally that it is justified... then the problem usually doesn't happen again... my stress levels have gone down tons thanks to these things...