Job Discussion Forums

Andrew Sylvia · Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 27

Hello all,

I'd like to get your opinion.

A week ago I was offered a job at EF in Hohhot, but this morning I got an e-mail that there is a possible job at Taoyuan in Taiwan with Shane.

However, the Shane recruiter nearly got me a job a month ago which fell through. The Hohhot job is 100% guaranteed if I want it. The job in Taiwan not so much. Otherwise, here's the tale of the tape.

-Hohhot-

5,500 rmb a month for first three months 6,000 rmb after that
89 hours a month
4,500 rmb for airfare

-Taoyuan-
45,000 Taiwanese Dollars a month
89 hours a month plus paid overtime
21, 000 Taiwanese Dollars for airfare

I tried to do a search on English First, but the search function won't work when putting in "English First". After browsing through this section though, I can only assume the search engine was overloaded somehow from all the comments.

I assume it's similar with Shane.

shoo-fly-pie · Joined: 30 Jul 2009 Posts: 26

Sorry to tell you, but both EF and Shane have poor reputations among foreign teachers. Many will tell you it all depends on the particular franchise, but basically, both EF and Shane get lots of negative posts on this and other ESL-related websites.

I worked for several training centers during my five years in China (2003-2008). While each of them had negative aspects, none of them were part of a large chain, like EF and Shane. The EF branch in Nanjing (where I lived) had poor word-of-mouth among teachers.

What each school is offering you is nothing special; quite standard or a bit below. Unless you REALLY want to be in Hohhot, I suggest that you keep looking, and avoid the big chains.

Do you have previous ESl experience?

Good luck!

Andrew Sylvia · Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 27

Thanks!

I have no paid ESL experience, but I have a BA, a TEFL certificate with 20 hours of teaching experience there and about 40-50 hours of teaching/teacher's aide experience from a 2 month internship here in the US.

I tried applying to some of the other schools I saw advertise on here that weren't chains, but never got a reply back from any of them.

Also I have to admit I took alot of the negative comments here with a grain of salt assuming it may be sour grapes. I might be wrong about that, but people generally seem to be louder when they have an axe to grind.

shoo-fly-pie · Joined: 30 Jul 2009 Posts: 26

Andrew Sylvia · Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 27

Thank you for the advice.

You're probably right, but I don't see much other option right now.

I am stuck when it comes to job hunting in the US.

kjk_esl · Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 41

I couple of Teachers left the EF school in Hohhot last term and went to another school in the same city. They hated the EF school there. So I suggest to try to avoid EF school in Hohhot.

shoo-fly-pie · Joined: 30 Jul 2009 Posts: 26

Andrew, I understand your situation completely. I'm not saying don't go to China, but try to avoid the big chains, and ask LOTS of questions of any potential employer; not only about terms of the job but also housing, and other factors.

If they reply with answers like: "No problem," "Don't worry about that," "This is China," and "You need to be flexible," (all standard ways of avoiding giving specific information), don't be afraid to press more (Chinese are master negotiators -- far better than westerners) or just walk away from them, because if they are vague now, there's a reason. If you don't feel comfortable with various terms or other things, keep asking questions (several times if necessary) and demanding answers (in writing!) until you are satisfied.

No matter how well you think everything is arranged, I can assure you there will some surprises (major or minor) awaiting you anyway.

ESL employers like to hire foreign teachers from their home country because they will accept more BS, ask less probing and experiential questions, and simply be more trusting.

I remember the feeling... I trusted far too much in the beginning. Please don't forget that I loved many things about China, especially my students, but recruiters and employers are cunning and care little about your welfare. By them you are viewed as a vessel for money (a human ATM). Once a recruiter places you, they collect a fee and move on to the next trusting person, caring nothing about broken promises they might have made to you regarding the job, the school, the apartment, the city, etc.

It's basically impossible to hold these people accountable after the fact; that's why you MUST insist on solid information, etc.

I want you to have a good experience in China, but your employment is what will take you there, and will play a huge role in your comfort and happiness.

Like you said, employment is the U.S. is rather hopeless right now, but that situation is what is driving more and more Americans to China. This of course, creates more chances for exploitation and downright abuse on the part of ESL employers and recruiters.

Andrew Sylvia · Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 27

Andrew Sylvia · Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 27

No word yet.

I guess EF in Hohhot wasn't so bad or kjk was just making it up since on here EF is always bad.

Lipps · Joined: 19 Jun 2009 Posts: 45

If a Baby poo's and the color is Yellow, is it any different than if he poo's Green? It's still Poo right?

I cant believe that given the information available to peope today, that they would choose to work in these exploitative institutions. And I am not just merely talking about the horror stories, just a plain look at the numbers and salaries contrasted against what is generally available and calculating them on a Per hourly Basis.. Its exploitation to the max!

Andrew Sylvia · Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 27

Lipps,

If you can find me another job in the next two weeks, let me know.

All the job posters on here never got back to me, and if the only solution you people have is "EF sucks", then I have to ask myself why I keep on posting here.

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

It would be interesting to see a detailed post with your EF experience a month or so after you have joined them. I dont have any knowledge of EF in China (only a bad experience in the UK with them) so it would be good to read how it works out for you.

I have a long term plan which does involve joining a well known chain school in another country, and this chain also tends to get negative feedback due to contract hours and salary. Im overlooking that because of the claimed professional development they offer, and so it would be interesting to hear more about your experiences.

My impression is that contract terms are rarely favourable with such schools, but that new or inexperienced teachers can normally learn quite a lot when working in these places.

Andrew Sylvia · Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 27

Thanks Nick,

That's a deal. Unless something drastic happens, i'll be heading over there September 8th, i'll provide a report to everybody here on October 8th.

Lipps · Joined: 19 Jun 2009 Posts: 45

I never said EF sucks, I wrote that their salary is exploitative. Anyone with grade five math skills can easily calculate that.

Seeing as you are easily gullable, why dont you come here and work for me. I will let you work my 16 periods, and I will pay you the per hourly rate you make at EF and pocket the difference for myself.

Most schools have signed contracts with teachers already and seeing as it takes nearly 30 days to get the invitations you need for the work visa, you should consider revising your timeline somewhat.

Andrew Sylvia · Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 27

No, you implied that they suck, which is the same thing.

And like I said before, if you can find me a job that pays better for someone with no experience, i'd be happy to do it.

I'd even be happy to take you up on your facetious offer. Exploitative or not, these chain schools are the only ones that have returned my e-mails. I'm tired of wasting my time grasping at straws.