Job Discussion Forums

[Ntensity]

Hi everyone this is my first post and I have decided to take a big step in life.

Im 24 years old and born in London UK. I never studied in Uni but I went to college to study ICT and landed a job in accountancy and have been working in the industry for 6 years and have a Level 4 NVQ in Accountancy (AAT Technician qualification) which is recognised quite well in the UK.

I have finally decided that I want to chase my dream and travel abroad to teach english and experience something different. I wish to teach in Asia for a few years and then if it all works out I may settle here as well as I have some family in HK. The 3 places I want to teach are in HK, Thailand and Japan.

I want to teach in Thailand first to gain experience as I also have a passion for Thaiboxing. I was wondering what TEFL qualifications is recommended before I start anything. Should I do the online course while I am here working, attend college part time and do the 120hr trinity course or is it as good as doing the intensive 120hour course out there in Thailand and then hope ill find a job while im there/

Will I be able to get a good job in Thailand with my current qualifications?
Apparantly its equivalent to a Diploma/Degree but its not technically a degree. Will employers will accept it as equivalent to a degree and see that I have been working in a professional accounting industry for many years?

Maybe after a year I would like to try Japan but was wondering what are my chances of teaching there with a years teaching experience and my current qualifications. The only teaching experience I have is 2 weeks in a Primary school for College work experience.

Apologies for all the questions but I would be really grateful if maybe some people who have experienced career changes have any tips or guidance for me. Also people who are teaching in Thailand at the moment can share some experiences in looking for a job.

[nickpellatt]

With regard to courses, the industry standard is the Trinity / CELTA type course. The 120 hours with observed teaching practice. There are other generic courses that are also equivalent .. but CELTA and Trinity are the brand names and the best recognised. 99.9% of the online courses arent worth doing.

As far as taking the course in country, or doing it at home, I always suggest doing it at home if possible. The course isnt easy, and some people do fail it due to its nature, the pressure, the workload or a failure to complete assignments and teaching practice. There is a thread on this page about that which may make interesting reading for you.

I personally feel that taking it in your own country, may ease some of the pressure and stress, and make the course a more enjoyable learning experience. Having a support network at home, and familiar surroundings makes life much easier, and thats the route I took. (I have a Trinity).

I could be wrong, but when I was working in China, my housemate was keen to go to Thailand, he couldnt find anything due to the lack of degree so that might be a huge problem. I would guess it is also a factor for HK and Japan too. There are places you can teach without qualifications, but it does restrict your choices and options.

A level 4 qualification is just A level equivalent right??? Or perhaps not...I dont know but it would be worth checking with someone like the Open University to see whether it would be accepted for Uni credits. If its a high enough qualification ... it may be equivalent to X amount of Uni study. That doesnt mean it will be accepted in lieu of a degree, but it may mean a degree is closer than you think.

It is worth thinking about the degree ... if you are serious about a career change, it can be done. I did the same thing when I was 36 (Im 40 now). To make it viable for the long term, I do think you will need a degree though.Experience will count for some things in some jobs, but ultimately the better jobs will only go to the best qualified. For EFL this means people with MA and other qualifications.

For purposes of legality in the countries you mention ... a degree is almost certainly to be considered the bare minimum, if not now...in the near future.

The good news is with some transferred Uni credits, (fingers crossed) this may be quite acheivable. I have been lucky enough to work in EFL since 2006 ... and have also managed to study alongside that to add qualifications to my experience (in the hope of being a hell of a lot more employable). Sure, sometimes its hard ... but if you are serious about this as a career change ... it is worth doing.

Final point - family in HK? Does that mean you are ethnically Chinese? This 'may' go against you if so ... certainly in China, forum chatter (and my own experience) does suggest you are likely to be discriminated against...not sure how true that will be in the countries you mention?

[Ntensity]

Even without a degree would a Celta increase my chances?

Im not sure how Asian countries would treat a Level 4 NVQ as they say in UK its equivalent to a degree and the AAT certificate is a recognised by Accountancy professional bodies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Vocational_Qualification

Look here.

Id hate to realise that I wasted all those years not going Uni. Does any of this change after a years experience of teaching?

Yes my ethnicity is chinese but I am british born. I have a few friends who told me the same thing but when meeting the employer in person it can be down to you to prove them wrong and that your just as good as any 'caucasian' person. I have 2 friends teaching in Japan as well as one in Taiwan and HK. Im not sure about Thailand.

I dont believe Im dark enough to look Thai either.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

Without a degree you will be very hard-pressed to get a job in Japan. When you are using your experience as a way to get a visa then I think you need to be working in that field- so you would need to be an accountant in Japan (I have no idea if there is a need for them, but I do know that foreigners work in banking in an entirely English medium) , not an English teacher.

CELTA is meaningless in Japan.

Do your two friends in Japan have the same kind of qualification as you? If they do and they're teaching, then there must be some way to do it (maybe they aren't strictly speaking allowed to do it under their visa, but they're doing it anyway?).

Keep in mind that when people say the market is flooded in Japan, it means that there are now people who speak Japanese really very will and who have undergrad degrees, as well as masters degrees in applied linguistics or TESOL going after regular high school jobs.

ETA:
It says right in the article that you posted that your qualification is below the level of an ordinary (non honours) degree. If the country requires a degree for a visa, then your qualification is just a little bit shy- it's like getting a college diploma instead of a university degree. Is there any way for you to upgrade it to level five?

[nickpellatt]

Wiki states

NVQ 4 = BTEC Higher National Certificate (HNC) or Higher National Diploma (HND), or City & Guilds Full Technological Certificate / Diploma
NVQ 5 = ordinary (non-honours) degree

Thats according to LSE research lab anyway. At the end of the day ... I think it would be hard to find find an employer overseas who would accept it as such. Thats not a qualified opinion, just a general one based on my experience (which may or may not be valid). Employers in the UK may or may not accept it, but employers overseas are less likely to IMO.

There is often talk about overseas employers only accepting degrees from traditional 4 year courses, with courses completed online (even if accredited) being occasionally unacceptable. Hoping they will accept something which may or may not even be equivalent is asking a lot.

A CELTA or Trinity wouldnt replace a degree, no. It is a recognised teaching certificate that may open some doors for you. At the end of the day, compared to an online cert which you mention in your first post, it may also teach you how to do the job, which an online one is unlikely to do. (I have two online certs myself ...waste of time and money really)

I really would investigate how transferrable it is ... and see if you can get Uni credits for it. Its definately worth looking at.

I also know people from Asian and ethnic backgrounds working in EFL ... of course it can be done, but many employers in Asia still prefer caucasian employees in EFL settings. My experience is only in China ... HK, Japan and Thailand may be different. In honesty though ... I do think a 24 yr old caucasian with a recognised degree will find it a lot easier. That does sound terrible to say...but I fear it is the truth in Asia

You have to make yourself as marketable as possible ... adding a recognised uni qualification to a recognised teaching certificate is only going to help.

[Ntensity]

The 2 friends who are in Japan have degrees but one mentioned I can try and apply for a working holiday visa for a year, but Im not sure if you can apply for this more than once. Would this be possible for me?

Also Ive seen a lot of places where they ask for degree 'or equivalent'. Technically does it have to be a degree or can it be something which is at least on par with it.

To be honest I think accounting is a bit tedious for me and Id really love to try teaching as its more rewarding and I feel its more of an interactive job than seeing numbers all day long.

Im not sure Nick I looked below that and it showed:

NVQ EQUIVALENT QUALIFICATIONS by University for the Creative Arts

NVQ 1

* GCSE, SCE, CSE,
* City and Guilds level 1 & part 1,
* RSA stage 1,
* Vocational certificate (BTEC, BEC, SCOTBEC or SCOTVEC 1st or general certificate)
* Basic literacy and numeracy qualifications, such as Wordpower and Numberpower

NVQ 2

* RSA Stage 2/ diploma,
* Pitmans intermediate,
* City and Guilds craft: (BTEC, BEC, SCOTBEC, TEC, SCOTEC or SCOTVEC 1st or general diploma),
* 1 A level, GNVQ or SNVQ

NVQ 3

* City & Guilds (level 3, part 3 or advanced), 2 or more A levels, GNVQ/ SNVQ

NVQ 4

* equivalent diploma, First degree, nursing or teaching qualification, HND

NVQ 5

* equivalent diploma, Master's degree PhD, PGC


The people who are teaching abroad are all of oriental ethnic but british born. If the employer wishes not to employ me due to my ethnic then its probabaly not my best intentions to be working for them either. Im sure being oriental in SE asia has its advantages as well.

[nickpellatt]

Being in London is there any chance you can 'try before you buy?' There are 100s of language schools up there, and there must be 100s of refugee and volunteer programs too. London is probably the EFL capital of the Western world...students everywhere!

Id try and get some experience before committing to a course and placement abroad.

[nickpellatt]

"The people who are teaching abroad are all of oriental ethnic but british born. If the employer wishes not to employ me due to my ethnic then its probabaly not my best intentions to be working for them either. Im sure being oriental in SE asia has its advantages as well."

based on my China experience, its market forces that drives it, not just the employer. Students and students parents are LESS likely to pay fees for a non-white teacher.

The thing to do, and the best place to get an answer, is send a few applications out...look here on Daves and TEFL.com for jobs...and apply. Our opinions here are just that ... opinions, its the reaction from the employers that carry more weight.

[naturegirl321]

In Asia, you could probably work in Thailand, China and Indonesia without a degree. HK, Japan and Korea, well, it's always possibile, anyting's possible, but it's not very likely. Another possibility, look into a distance degree, you might have to go home to do the teaching practice, but you could do a lot while overseas.

About the Asian looks, it's not just Asian, I've got a European background, my dad's got jewish blood and my mom's got Romanian. Somehow I turned out being short, dark, and have semi Asian eyes. Yeah, it gets held against you. And some people want to pay you less, lUckly, you have a British passport and were born there. BUt for others, like Filipinos, they have to settle for less pay. I've seen Russians who barely speak English get good jobs based on their blonde hair and blue eyes. It's unfair, I agree, but like you said, simply don't work for those people.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

All that Creative Arts university means is that that particular university isn't on par with other universities either- as far as academia goes. Creative Arts universities run a little differently than academic universities because basically they are in it to turn out artists of one medium or another. They often start life as colleges and get upgraded to universities later (often by doing little more than adding a few mandatory Creative Art X [whatever you're majoring in- visual art, music, dance, theatre, film etc] History). They don't have an academic focus (which is fine if you are in studio fine arts- but accounting is not a studio fine arts stream). Right above it, there's an equivalency chart for mainstream academic universities- the type of thing that you go to for a degree in most subjects.

The bottom line in Asia is often if it's a degree, it will be CALLED a degree.

[workingnomad]

[Glenski]

[Betti]

I can't comment about the Asian market having worked exclusively in Europe, but.... if you are serious about teaching what about doing a CELTA or Trinity at home and then trying a year in Europe to see how you get on? I've worked with plenty of teachers who haven't got a degree and I've also worked with teachers (british-born) of different races and it doesn't seem to have impeded their chances. I agree with a previous poster that doing your teaching qualification at home will be easier. I did CELTA, it was intensive and I appreciated my home comforts during a month of hard core study. It's not difficult per se, just intense, I found it an enjoyable experience. I suggest posting on the Asian forum here to see how many people have succeeded without a degree. Another idea would be to see if the friends you have in this field could offer you an introduction to their schools. Good luck