Job Discussion Forums

TexasHighway · Joined: 03 Dec 2005 Posts: 779

Andrew Sylvia wrote:

Andrew Sylvia · Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 27

Thanks guys.

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

"As with anywhere elsewhere, the best jobs take more effort to find"

And in fairness, I think they may also only be secured with more experience and little 'guanxi'. Im sure most of the long term China teachers didnt stay in the first job, and used it as an opportunity to learn the lie of the land and as a stepping stone to move on, or perhaps to even decide teaching (or teaching in China) wasnt for them.

I think Andrew has done the right thing here. He has applied to other places, made some enquiries here, and for one reason or another, the right or 'approved' job hasnt turned up. The suggestion of walking the streets may be a valid one, but that may also require significant funds, and goes against the grain in the common advice dished out about visas. Arriving in China and having to find your way to a city or town without assistance can be hard ... and the money one may need in reserve to find a place to stay and support yourself in food etc until a) finding a job and b) getting paid, could be substantial ... and possibly outweigh the greater salary that 'may' be on offer.

Sure, language mills and chain schools may not be the best place to start ... but they are a start, and do offer some security to newcomers to EFL and China. Any sensible person with some common sense can use the experience with them to learn and make contacts...and move on from there if needs be.

At some stage in everyones EFL 'career', you have to take a leap of faith, we have all done it when taking our first job overseas ... EF schools do have some advantages Im sure, and wouldnt be the worst places to work IMO (public schools with 60 teenage kids per class whilst your accom is in dorms would qualify for that)

My first China contract wasnt with a chain school, but if I had posted the details here before I accepted it, I dont think a single person would have approved of it due to location, salary, shared living quarters ... but I had a fantastic time there, and extended my initial contract.

Andrew has suggested he will post again a month or so into his stay in China ... Im looking forward to reading a report about how its going there, and wish him well!

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

yeah Vik, it was with low hours ... and that did suit me. Everyone has different motivations though and the OP is obviously keen and determined to do China, and it would seem that his applications and investigations have led him to EF. Although longer hours arent my thing, I can see the advantage to taking a confirmed job offer and arriving in China with someone to collect you and take you back to a town/school where there are other people in the same boat. Sure it could be better, but I reckon it could also be worse.

When you have no, or little experience ... I dont think its as easy to find something as those in China may suggest. EF etc may offer a way in, and some people may be able to take advantage of that and build upon it. I dont think the OP is under any illusions about his job ... I guess he probably knows its not the best job in China ... but it may be his only option for now. Better to take that option and make the best of it IMO.

Im really looking forward to hearing how he gets on (and hopefully it will be a positive experience). Not everyone has the same motivations and long terms plans, and I just hope this one works out.

Ive actually contacted International House today about a placement in the future. Again, there is a lot of negative feedback surrounding IH, normally relating to hours and salary - and whilst I accept those, they may offer other things that suit me according to my plans and long term goals. I dont know the OPs intentions and motivations, but my impression of his postings suggest he is probably one of the good guys ... so Im trying to offer objective support rather than just saying he is making the wrong choice.

He has more qualifications than many people teaching in China already, and the fact he is actively posting here and making some enquiries does suggest he is doing some research into his China experience. Of course, you cant REALLY know anyone from online interactions, but rather than just telling him he is wrong and EF are crap (which seems to be the normal replies) ... maybe someone can offer an alternative?

Im obviously in a super friendly and supportive mode at the mo Razz

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

shoo-fly-pie · Joined: 30 Jul 2009 Posts: 26

I understand what you're saying vikuk, but although my salary in Korea last year was MUCH higher than what I earned in China (2003-2008) which continued to decline over the years; my work load was horrible (8-10 one-hour classes per day beginning at 6:50AM), and because I was in Seoul (shockingly expensive) the quality of my daily life was not nearly as good as China -- where I always had fully furnished, two bedroom apartments. I Korea, you have to supply ALL furniture, some applicances, TV, etc., and the studios are beyond tiny.

I actually enjoyed a much greater lifestyle in China. The problem is when you leave China, due the exchange rate, you have almost no money. That problem is less when leaving Korea. I was able to pay off some debts while working there.

What's best for one, is not preferrable for another; but for my all 'round experience, China beat Korea hands down (jobs, housing, people, food, culture). The only thing I preferred about Korea was much better sanitation and less pollution.

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

Andrew Sylvia · Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 27

Well, it hasn't been a month, but I figured i'd tell you what happened.

My family was dead set against me going to work for EF. I kept on pressing EF for more information about the conditions there, and they said that if i'm still asking them questions this close to leaving then i'm not what they're looking for.

I suppose you guys were right, especially working on an L Visa. Thank you again for setting off the alarm bells.

I might try again in a few months and go for a more reputable school and leave some more time so a Z Visa is possible.

The Great Wall of Whiner · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 4946 Location: Blabbing

Andrew Sylvia · Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 27

Yeah, they're both gone now. Neither was a perfect choice by any means.

I've found another revenue stream, so while I'd like to try again in an overseas ESL job hunt, I'm going to wait a few months, be far more strenuous in my search and requirements from the employer, and far less desperate considering that the money is now less necessary.