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eclectic
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 1122
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 Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:26 am Post subject: |
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question: what is professionalism?  (OK, the stage is set......) |
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sandersjayfer
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Posts: 14
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: Something positive for a change. |
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The positive things about living & working in KSA are:
1. You work for a year or so on a business visa (illegally of course) and do
not get caught.
2. The day after payday you go to Bahrain or Kuwait after sending your
things out by mail or DHL and get on a plane.
3. You never see the cesspool again.
4. All the things that bothered you in the past are now insignificant and
nothing to bother with after seeing TRUE inefficiency and fraud at work. |
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desultude
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 614
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Something positive for a change. |
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| sandersjayfer wrote: |
The positive things about living & working in KSA are:
1. You work for a year or so on a business visa (illegally of course) and do
not get caught.
2. The day after payday you go to Bahrain or Kuwait after sending your
things out by mail or DHL and get on a plane.
3. You never see the cesspool again.
4. All the things that bothered you in the past are now insignificant and
nothing to bother with after seeing TRUE inefficiency and fraud at work. |
Yes, a person is able to tolerate just about anything after a couple of years in the Kingdom. |
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Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Can it be that bad?
yes. all that and a bag of chips.
G |
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desultude
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 614
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Grendal wrote: |
Can it be that bad?
yes. all that and a bag of chips.
G |
And good luck with the chips!
I never found any decent chips (British or American) the whole time I was there!
But there is other great food- truly! |
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Uncle Al
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 3
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:52 am Post subject: |
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The ability or inability to leave a contract at will (pull a runner) seems to be dependent upon a number of issues:
Does your employer keep your passport? If so, you probably will not be able to pull a runner if you get desperate. Thus far, PMU does not hold passports, but there are rumors that they may begin to do so due to the number of runners and people who do not return from vacation.
Additionally, your ability to leave at will is dependent upon the ability to have an exit visa. Westerners who carry a multiple exit visa can fairly easily leave the country and not come � say you�re going to Bahrain for the week-end and fly out of there. Non-Westerners and Westerners who do not wish to spend the money on the multiple exit visa really do not have this option. The multiple exit visa costs 500 SAR or about $125.
So, if you�ve got your passport and a multiple exit visa no one will stop you from leaving the country unless you make the mistake of telling someone that you�re not planning on coming back which is the case of the person who has his multiple exit visa cancelling and did not find out until he was on the causeway that PMU had cancelled his visa.
If leaving were not easy, PMU would not have lost so many people and perhaps more importantly, if PMU were a great place to work, so many people would not be leaving. |
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Citizenkane
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Xanadu
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:14 am Post subject: |
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All of this talk about "that bad," a phrase that is really subjective. Who defines "that bad?"
I can tell you that it's bad. I can also tell you that it IS "that bad" for me. But you are the only person who can decide if it's "that bad" for you. The only way you can do that is to go and find out for yourself.
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Haven't read thru the whole treahd but this fairly sums it up.
Yes, working in KSA can indeed be pretty bad. Some people have had the worst professional experiences of their lives there. Most of what you've read about can happen, but that does not mean it will happen. Believe it or not, some Saudi employers and administrators are decent people. Some are not. Pretty much like anywhere. I think the main difference is the power that Saudi employers hold ovr their foreign employees. They really can make your life hell in a way few others can.
But as i've said, can does not mean will. If we knew which employr you were consdiering, we'd be better able to give you advice. |
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Middle East Beast
Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 836
Location: Up a tree
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Uncle Al wrote: |
| Thus far, PMU does not hold passports, but there are rumors that they may begin to do so due to the number of runners and people who do not return from vacation. |
S.O.P in the K.S.A. Rather than address the issues that result in runners, they hammer the employees by imposing more restrictions. In prison, if inmates are escaping, you build a stronger fortress to contain them. |
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desultude
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 614
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Uncle Al wrote: |
The ability or inability to leave a contract at will (pull a runner) seems to be dependent upon a number of issues:
Does your employer keep your passport? If so, you probably will not be able to pull a runner if you get desperate. Thus far, PMU does not hold passports, but there are rumors that they may begin to do so due to the number of runners and people who do not return from vacation.
Additionally, your ability to leave at will is dependent upon the ability to have an exit visa. Westerners who carry a multiple exit visa can fairly easily leave the country and not come � say you�re going to Bahrain for the week-end and fly out of there. Non-Westerners and Westerners who do not wish to spend the money on the multiple exit visa really do not have this option. The multiple exit visa costs 500 SAR or about $125.
So, if you�ve got your passport and a multiple exit visa no one will stop you from leaving the country unless you make the mistake of telling someone that you�re not planning on coming back which is the case of the person who has his multiple exit visa cancelling and did not find out until he was on the causeway that PMU had cancelled his visa.
If leaving were not easy, PMU would not have lost so many people and perhaps more importantly, if PMU were a great place to work, so many people would not be leaving. |
You are right about most of it- but one of the big problems at PMU is that the admin screws up the paperwork so for months on end you won't have any legal paper work (visa OR passport) to do a runner. |
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Middle East Beast
Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 836
Location: Up a tree
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
| You are right about most of it- but one of the big problems at PMU is that the admin screws up the paperwork so for months on end you won't have any legal paper work (visa OR passport) to do a runner. |
There's the rub...hmmm...maybe not so easy to leave? |
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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| S.O.P in the K.S.A. Rather than address the issues that result in runners, they hammer the employees by imposing more restrictions. In prison, if inmates are escaping, you build a stronger fortress to contain them. |
Agreed. And the fact it takes three months to process a work visa? Ridiculous. Another issue to address. It should take 3 weeks at the most. I wouldn't want to give three months' notice simply because it takes that long for them to process the visa for my replacement. It's not my problem if they're behind the times and can't do this in more speedy manner. |
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Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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They are using the latest in technology combined with an archaic mentality. What takes time is their support network that is on the periphery. Maybe the 12noon to 4pm break puts a damper on things too.
I would be surprised if they improved their visa processing system in the next twenty years or so. We need another generation to completely get Saudi into the 21st century.
Grendal |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Grendal,
"We need another generation to completely get Saudi into the 21st century."
And I thought that I was an optimistic sort. You put me to shame, Grendal.
Regards,
John |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| And the fact it takes three months to process a work visa? Ridiculous. Another issue to address. It should take 3 weeks at the most. |
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